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4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

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4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby stephendudra » Apr Mon 25, 2011 3:27 pm

I currently own a GW Chase 263 that has the OX66 225 series Yamaha's on the boat. Let me start off by saying that I have owned about 10 different boats in my lifetime and I LOVE this boat way more than any other that I have owned.

My issue is this. GAS PRICES SUCK!!! I seem to average 1.3 to 1.5 MPG in the boat. If gas prices didn't suck, this would not be a big deal. But here in Jacksonville, we have a 45-55 mile run to get to the ledge and allow us to troll for dolphin, wahoo, etc. On average, I will burn betweek 125-150 gallons of fuel during a trolling day. Do the math. That is 450-550 just for gas. Lets not forget the oil as well.

My wife and I where talking this weekend and she has a valid point in saying that the boat isn't used that much because it is hard for us to pick up the full tab for everything to go offshore fishing now. Yes we have friends and yes they normally pitch in for the fuel and such. I also have friends that have bigger boats and smaller that I do get time offshore when I am not using mine. Her suggestion was to either:

A. look at replacing the engines with 4 strokes
B. Get a smaller boat with smaller engines

My question to my fellow Grady owners is this. Has anyone personally or known someone who has, added 4 stroke engines to the Chase 263? If so, does anyone have any performance numbers?

My thoughts would be to go no smaller than a 200 HP engine on this boat and no bigger than a 225. I am just seriously wondering how much less fuel, if any, would I use in a normal ledge run. I have a friend that has a cobia 25 ft with twin yamaha 150's and we burn right about 100 gallons to go to the ledge and high speed. Another friend has a 24 ft Century with twin 150's and he burns about 80-85. Doesnt seem like a lot but at the cost of gas now (plus oil) it can add up.

Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated and if anyone knows of anyone with a Chase series with 4 strokes, please let me know!

Stephen
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby Desperado » Apr Mon 25, 2011 3:34 pm

Contact Grady about mounting a 4 stroke to your transom. If they recommend against it look at the Yamaha HPDIs. They get mileage close to a four stroke. If you can go 4 stroke the new Yamahas look like the way to go as they weigh less than the old models.
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby stephendudra » Apr Mon 25, 2011 4:15 pm

Desperado wrote:Contact Grady about mounting a 4 stroke to your transom. If they recommend against it look at the Yamaha HPDIs. They get mileage close to a four stroke. If you can go 4 stroke the new Yamahas look like the way to go as they weigh less than the old models.



I have spoken to Grady about this once before. The NEW 4 strokes are lighter and the only thing that MIGHT happen is the outside scuppers might drop down into the water when sitting still. Other than that, nothing else.
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby Legend » Apr Mon 25, 2011 4:35 pm

The fuel saving will be significant from - I went form from an old Johnson to the HPDI mentioned earlier and the gas savings was excellent - can't recall exactly but at least 50% better. I have since gone to the 4 stroke - the gas is about the same maybe a bit better - savings on oil but you end up having to do oil changes -
Really depends if you want 2 stroke or 4 stroke both engine mentioned are great options
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby uncljohn » Apr Mon 25, 2011 4:50 pm

What year is your OX66? If its an EFI (not carb), then you will be looking at approx 25-30% fuel savings by going to a 4-S. If it is a carbed engine, you're looking at 50-60% fuel savings. With the amount of fuel you're looking to burn by running offshore, its probably worth the cost.

I only put approx 100 hrs per year on my engine and it would have taken me 15-18 years to recoup the extra cost of a 4-S. I went from a carb to an EFI instead.
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby cgmiller » Apr Mon 25, 2011 4:59 pm

Steve,

Only you can answer what is best for you..what do you do most of the time..run offshore looking for dolphin or so you also jerk around in the bay and play close to the beach? For what you will spend on a repower, you could buy a second smaller boat..something 18-20 foot that you could play in every day and use the big boat when you head offshore...if you always head offshore and a smaller boat would not be an option, than repowering your rig is the way to go..the 263 Chase is an AWESOME boat..I loved it when I first saw one at the boat show years ago....My neighbor has 140's Zukes on an older 25 Mako..8' beam, 24 degree bottom and he gets 2-2.5 mpg economy on her..she is not a race horse, but gets him where he wants to go..and his offshore spot is 90 miles off of NJ. He has 1500 hours on his rig so far....The other neighbor has 150 zukes on a 25 Seafox and she humps along as does my 23 Gulfstream with twin 150's...25-30 mph cruise at a little over 2 mpg....look at the 175 Suzuki's...may be a good fit...good luck!
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1974 17 Mako (in family since new)
Mystic Islands, NJ
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby BobP » Apr Mon 25, 2011 5:29 pm

The new motors "game changer" Yamaha Fs will cost $40K rigged, not much resale on older motors. Motors depreciate very fast, even new ones.
Figure this into the math.

The 25% fuel savings and oil may never add up - in your lifetime.
If you troll a lot, I would say the fuel savings is more like 35-40% while trolling. It's still a 2 stroke even with fuel injection, only a direct injection 2 stroke covers all rpms. FI just replaces the carb with injectors, that's all it does. The gas/air mixture still runs right by the exposed exhaust port on the way up to fire, dumping raw fuel into atmosphere. They call it unburned hydrocarbons to act smart. It's raw fuel.
The DI 2 stroke motors only pass air from below and a touch of oil, no gas.

How many gallons of Yamalube do you use a season?
I get the 4x gallon cases for about 100 bucks on open house sale days.

Smaller single engine boat, or same size with inboard or I/O diesel. One diesel motor costs the same as twin outboards though to buy, but last forever relatively speaking, and are ultra reliable as singles. Since you go offshore, a smaller boat may be shooting you in the foot, so perhaps drum up a crew for each trip, plenty around with no boats would luv the opportunity.

You may be able to retrofit with one 300 Yamaha or Suzie, cut 1/2 inital cost and 1/3 maintence costs. If the Chase is the same hull as the former Islander, one 300 HP motor will get the job done with no sweat.

Good luck!
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby BobP » Apr Mon 25, 2011 5:30 pm

Actually 1/2 maintenance cost.
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby stephendudra » Apr Mon 25, 2011 5:58 pm

Wow!

A lot of good advice. I am sorry that I did not say that the engines are EFI OX66 engines. I would go to the ledge for dolphin and such more if the costs to do so where not so high most of the time. Unfortunately, almost ALL bottom fishing is closed off the coast of Florida. No Snapper, Sea Bass, Grouper, etc. So to catch anything good, you have to run 40 plus miles 1 way to get to good fishing.

Bottom fishing closer to shore with my kids was great! They loved it and there are many bottom spots that are within 10 miles out of Jacksonville. However, with everything being closed, why even try? That leaves me mostly with trolling for kings close by the beach (no further than 20-25 miles) and making a run to deeper water for dolphin, Tuna or Wahoo.

We also take the kids to the local sandbar for good times with friends. When gas was lower than 3 dollars a gallon, it was not that bad and everyone sucked it up. But with it now being a dollar more than this time last year, it is making it really hard! As I said, I LOVE this boat. Yes, there are a few things that I might change (Bigger fish box would be nice as a 50 plus lb wahoo does NOT fit in the fish box) and the batteries mounted under the center console instead of the back) but overall this is MY dream boat. With the current Yamaha engines, I personally have had this boat close to 60 and my mechanic has had it to 63. I do not run it hard like this at all, but come on! I am a man and we all want to know how fast our boat or car or truck or motorcycle will run. (My excursion shuts down at 110 MPH btw but it gets there really quick!)

My point is this. If I would ONLY gain not even 1 more mpg would it really be worth the trouble?? If I burn 150 gallons now and with new engines only burn 100, that is a savings of about 182.50 in gas alone. Is this savings really worth the trouble? I was HOPING there was someone else that has a CHASE with 4 strokes on it that could give me hard numbers.

Hopefully, someone will chime in though.

Thanks again everyone!
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby ocnslr » Apr Mon 25, 2011 6:38 pm

We purchased our 2002 Islander 270 new with a single 250HP OX66. Put 465hrs on it in the first four seasons.

Repowered with twin F150s in Oct 2005, and now have over 1000hrs on them. Saw about a 35-40% improvement in fuel efficiency.

We are bigger and heavier than your 263, and run to the Norfolk Canyon (75nm each way) and back for deep-drop fishing. I burn between 95-115 gallons, depending on speed. Could burn a bit less if I cruised at 24kts, but I tend to run at 27-28kts most of the time.

PM me if you want to discuss this on the phone.

Brian
2002 Islander 270 - 2006 Yamaha F150s
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby BobP » Apr Mon 25, 2011 6:47 pm

Brian, looks like Op wants the new V6 Fs as twins.

Going from 450 to 300 HP is a gap.
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby ocnslr » Apr Mon 25, 2011 9:56 pm

BobP wrote:Brian, looks like Op wants the new V6 Fs as twins.

Going from 450 to 300 HP is a gap.


Bob,

Well, if that's what the OP wants, and if that includes a rocket ship, then good for him. He should go for it if he can afford it.

We wanted to fish offshore, and could not do it with 150gals in the tank and an OX66 that was good for 1.1-1.2nmpg when the boat was loaded for offshore. Just couldn't safely go where we wanted/needed to go for fish. So we repowered a three-year-old boat.

I personally would like twin 200s, but on a choice between F150s and F225s, I saw no need for the extra cost or HP. And I don't regret that decision at all.

I see so many other GW owners who get 1.0nmpg and have cut way back on boat use. I can put four or five people on the boat, load it with trolling and deep drop gear, and 200# ice, and still cruise at 1.5-1.6nmpg at 24-25kts. So I haven't had to cut back on the fishing trips - just need more days without these damn winds.

We wanted to fish offshore, and could not do it with 150gals in the tank and an OX66 that was good for 1.1-1.2nmpg when the boat was loaded for offshore. Just couldn't safely go where we wanted/needed to go for fish.

This was taken a few years ago, when we were running north on the Chesapeake Bay for a GW Palooza in Solomons Island. GPS was showing 27.4kts when the photo was taken.

IMG_0542 (Large).JPG
IMG_0542 (Large).JPG (124.58 KiB) Viewed 976 times


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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby stephendudra » Apr Tue 26, 2011 2:56 pm

Bob,

It has nothing to do with making the boat run 60 mph. For example, I have 2 friends with 2 different boats but both have twin Yamaha F150's on them. Most recently, I went on 1 friends boat that is a Cobia 25 ft CC. We ran a total of 280 miles and burned right at 100 gallons of fuel. We ran between 30-35 mph out to the ledge and high speed trolled all day. We ran back in at 40-42 mph. Th avae other boat, a Century 2400, can do the same thing on 80-85 gallons of fuel.

I would love to see these same numbers from my grady or CLOSE to it. Trust me, I am just considering all aspects and options that might be available. I am not looking to be the fastest boat out to a spot at all. I am just looking to fish more and reduce my cost of ownership with fuel.

As it stands now, I just hookup with other friends to fish deep and use mine to stay close. What good is it to own such a boat if I dont get to use it the way that I intended it to be used?
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby uncljohn » Apr Tue 26, 2011 3:08 pm

stephendudra wrote:
My point is this. If I would ONLY gain not even 1 more mpg would it really be worth the trouble?? If I burn 150 gallons now and with new engines only burn 100, that is a savings of about 182.50 in gas alone. Is this savings really worth the trouble? I was HOPING there was someone else that has a CHASE with 4 strokes on it that could give me hard numbers.



If you repower with 4-S at a cost of $40K, and I'll round up your fuel savings for an offshore trip to $183, then it will take you 218+ trips to recoup the $ you spent. If you go offshore 5 times/year, then it will take you 43.6 years to pay for the engines. If you go offshore 50 times, then you can recoup the $ in 4+ years. Math sucks, doesnt it? :sorry

Of course, if your current engines can't handle the extended trip, then you can repower at a high cost or nix the offshore trips.
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Re: 4 stroke suggestion -- HELP needed

Postby stephendudra » Apr Tue 26, 2011 4:24 pm

LOL I can do math as that is not the issue. The more and more that I think of this, unless I come across a deal of a lifetime, the 2 strokes are my only option.

Plus I think that if my wife was on this forum, we ALL would quickly get the answer of what I am doing or what I am NOT doing! :doh

I do welcome all messages though and IF the stupid a** Government continues it's closures on fishing for us, It will only leave one option for me and what I need to do with my boat. Then I will see if someone up north wants a PERFECT Grady White!!

Thanks to everyone for listening and making suggestions. I hope that this thread will at least help someone in the future that might be thinking of the same thing. If all else fails, I might revisit new engines once my kids are out of school or I win the lottery.
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