2004 Yamaha F225 exhaust problems

[Mike LaCroix]

I recently replaced the exhaust kit on a 2004 Yamaha F225. (2nd one in 8 years). The exhaust connection coming from the engine looks as pitted as the exhaust kit I just replaced. Is this engine junk? (See photo)
Also, is Yamaha taking any responsibility for this?

 

[seasick]

Wow, 2 kits in 8 years? Where and how was the boat stored/docked? I wonder if the issues are more electrical in nature ( electrolysis). Was there other erosion of castings or anodes.
Where is that casting in relation to the power head?
Also, how recent is 'recently'?

 

[Fishtales]

The major failure is when the plate between the powerhead and top of the exhaust tube gets eaten away and water gets into the powerhead. Did you change all the recommended parts both times? The plate is fairly thick compared to the exhaust tube walls.

 

[seasick]

The major failure is when the plate between the powerhead and top of the exhaust tube gets eaten away and water gets into the powerhead. Did you change all the recommended parts both times? The plate is fairly thick compared to the exhaust tube walls.

That's true but when water gets in the powerhead, it is usually terminal.
I think that plate is the oil pan and it should be changes as part of the exhaust repair. In addition it often a good idea to also replace the oil pump.

 

[Mike LaCroix]

Wow, 2 kits in 8 years? Where and how was the boat stored/docked? I wonder if the issues are more electrical in nature ( electrolysis). Was there other erosion of castings or anodes.
Where is that casting in relation to the power head?
Also, how recent is 'recently'?

The boat is on a slip in the summer and on a trailer in the winter. The anodes are in are all within reasonable condition as well as the ground/bonding wires.

 

[Mike LaCroix]

That's true but when water gets in the powerhead, it is usually terminal.
I think that plate is the oil pan and it should be changes as part of the exhaust repair. In addition it often a good idea to also replace the oil pump.

The complete exhaust housing was replaced (Yamaha Part Number MAR-EXHKT-04-00). This includes about 20 parts. The plate in the picture is the oil pan. This is where the oil pan meets up to the powerhead looks the same. I don't have any pictures of the power head but the oil pan mating surface is pitted the same.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I don't have any personal experience with the dry exhaust corrosion issue but when I bought my boat last October, which also has a 2004 Yamaha F225 on it, the dealer I bought it from who also happens to be a Grady White dealer, said they pulled the lower unit and inspected for the problem, of which they didn't find any issues. I trailered the boat home 3,009 miles from Maryland to just north of Seattle where I live, and the local GW dealer in Edmonds is called Jacobsen's Marine. I had them winterize the boat and drop the lower unit just to make sure the dealer I bought it from was being honest with me, which they were, and Jacobsen's said everything looked perfect. That being said, when I went to pick up the boat, I asked the tech about the problem and he said it's about $2k for the parts and labor, and if you can catch it early enough then you save the motor and just have to do the parts kit and labor like you've done. But... he said if you let it go for too long and it starts to spread into the other parts of the motor where the kit you replaced touches the other parts, then it can mean a new powerhead or even worse is having to get a completely new motor. He said that they've done dozens and dozens and dozens of these motors before, so I'm fairly confident that he knows what he's talking about. I've heard a rumor that oftentimes the issue starts around the 500-600 hour mark and if you can get past that without any issues, "typically" you won't have any problems. But obviously it's not guarantee. I'd contact your local GW dealer or Yamaha repair shop and see what they have to say about it but can't imagine that Yamaha would offer any sort of repairs, warranty or anything on an outboard that's almost 20 years old at this point. Good luck and let us know what the outcome is!

 

[Fishtales]

My dealer stated about 5 years ago when I had mine done that Yamaha has a heat map (occurrences of failure by region) and the problem was significantly worse in warm water regions. I never saw the map though.
There are a bunch of parts that are part of the kit and there are others (including oil pump) that I did on recommendation of being in that deep. The new coating was advertised to be much better. I guess time will tell or not...

 

[Fishtales]

I don't have any personal experience with the dry exhaust corrosion issue but when I bought my boat last October, which also has a 2004 Yamaha F225 on it, the dealer I bought it from who also happens to be a Grady White dealer, said they pulled the lower unit and inspected for the problem, of which they didn't find any issues. I trailered the boat home 3,009 miles from Maryland to just north of Seattle where I live, and the local GW dealer in Edmonds is called Jacobsen's Marine. I had them winterize the boat and drop the lower unit just to make sure the dealer I bought it from was being honest with me, which they were, and Jacobsen's said everything looked perfect. That being said, when I went to pick up the boat, I asked the tech about the problem and he said it's about $2k for the parts and labor, and if you can catch it early enough then you save the motor and just have to do the parts kit and labor like you've done. But... he said if you let it go for too long and it starts to spread into the other parts of the motor where the kit you replaced touches the other parts, then it can mean a new powerhead or even worse is having to get a completely new motor. He said that they've done dozens and dozens and dozens of these motors before, so I'm fairly confident that he knows what he's talking about. I've heard a rumor that oftentimes the issue starts around the 500-600 hour mark and if you can get past that without any issues, "typically" you won't have any problems. But obviously it's not guarantee. I'd contact your local GW dealer or Yamaha repair shop and see what they have to say about it but can't imagine that Yamaha would offer any sort of repairs, warranty or anything on an outboard that's almost 20 years old at this point. Good luck and let us know what the outcome is!

What you state is how it was explained to me as well. Yamaha's response was to offer the kit at cost. That was it. The labor and risk was all on the customer.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

What you state is how it was explained to me as well. Yamaha's response was to offer the kit at cost. That was it. The labor and risk was all on the customer.

Any idea what the "at cost" price of the kit is as I can't imagine that it would save you much money at the end of the day? IIRC, the retail price of the kit is around $600 and have heard the remaining $1,400 or so is because of the labor. Even if the kit was half off at say $300, which obviously saving $300 is better than spending an extra $300, but you're still at around $1,700 total as the labor seems to be the most expensive piece of the puzzle. I guess long story short, it's "nice" of Yamaha to offer the kit at cost, but I'd imagine you're still going to be spending almost $2k at the end of the day. And that's if you only have one main, if you have two then it would obviously be double that.

 

[Fishtales]

Your correct, Yamaha offered very little to the customer considering it was advertised as a coating issue that was resolved with a new coating formula. A customer centric company would have covered a lot more. To be honest, a 100% coverage would likely have put them in a tough spot, but $300 on a $2-2.5K repair due to a defect is an insult if you ask me.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Exactly. Even if they gave you the roughly $600 kit for free, it's still going to be almost $1,500 out of pocket to pay for the repairs and that's if they've even got them in stock. When I had my boat in at the local GW dealer having it winterized back in November they said one boat had been there for over 4 months getting the dry exhaust corrosion issue done on it but they were still waiting on parts to do it. $2k is a bit easier of a pill to swallow when you factor that into your purchase price, if the issue presents itself at the time you purchase the boat. If you pay above fair market value, are strapped for cash and a few months later you're spending another $2k per motor on the dry exhaust corrosion problems, on top of everything else you're already paying for, it could definitely come as a very rude awakening. It looks like the prices have gone up on the kits since I looked at them 6-7 months ago when they used to be around $600. Now, the cheapest that I can find the 2004 and newer kit for is just under $700 and the 2002-2003 kit is just over $600.

Yamaha New OEM Exh Kit F200-225 02-03, MAR-EXHKT-03-00

Leaders RPM Shop offers a wide range of recreation, powersports and marine parts, accessories, and gear. Located in Kalamazoo, Michigan, our customers reach across midwest, the US and globally. Our goal is to serve our customers with premium outdoor products from quality manufacturers like BRP...

leadersrpmshop.com

Yamaha New OEM Exh Kit F200-250 04 Up, MAR-EXHKT-04-00

Leaders RPM Shop offers a wide range of recreation, powersports and marine parts, accessories, and gear. Located in Kalamazoo, Michigan, our customers reach across midwest, the US and globally. Our goal is to serve our customers with premium outdoor products from quality manufacturers like BRP...

leadersrpmshop.com

 

[Mike LaCroix]

I don't have any personal experience with the dry exhaust corrosion issue but when I bought my boat last October, which also has a 2004 Yamaha F225 on it, the dealer I bought it from who also happens to be a Grady White dealer, said they pulled the lower unit and inspected for the problem, of which they didn't find any issues. I trailered the boat home 3,009 miles from Maryland to just north of Seattle where I live, and the local GW dealer in Edmonds is called Jacobsen's Marine. I had them winterize the boat and drop the lower unit just to make sure the dealer I bought it from was being honest with me, which they were, and Jacobsen's said everything looked perfect. That being said, when I went to pick up the boat, I asked the tech about the problem and he said it's about $2k for the parts and labor, and if you can catch it early enough then you save the motor and just have to do the parts kit and labor like you've done. But... he said if you let it go for too long and it starts to spread into the other parts of the motor where the kit you replaced touches the other parts, then it can mean a new powerhead or even worse is having to get a completely new motor. He said that they've done dozens and dozens and dozens of these motors before, so I'm fairly confident that he knows what he's talking about. I've heard a rumor that oftentimes the issue starts around the 500-600 hour mark and if you can get past that without any issues, "typically" you won't have any problems. But obviously it's not guarantee. I'd contact your local GW dealer or Yamaha repair shop and see what they have to say about it but can't imagine that Yamaha would offer any sort of repairs, warranty or anything on an outboard that's almost 20 years old at this point. Good luck and let us know what the outcome is!

Exactly. Even if they gave you the roughly $600 kit for free, it's still going to be almost $1,500 out of pocket to pay for the repairs and that's if they've even got them in stock. When I had my boat in at the local GW dealer having it winterized back in November they said one boat had been there for over 4 months getting the dry exhaust corrosion issue done on it but they were still waiting on parts to do it. $2k is a bit easier of a pill to swallow when you factor that into your purchase price, if the issue presents itself at the time you purchase the boat. If you pay above fair market value, are strapped for cash and a few months later you're spending another $2k per motor on the dry exhaust corrosion problems, on top of everything else you're already paying for, it could definitely come as a very rude awakening. It looks like the prices have gone up on the kits since I looked at them 6-7 months ago when they used to be around $600. Now, the cheapest that I can find the 2004 and newer kit for is just under $700 and the 2002-2003 kit is just over $600.

Yamaha New OEM Exh Kit F200-225 02-03, MAR-EXHKT-03-00

Leaders RPM Shop offers a wide range of recreation, powersports and marine parts, accessories, and gear. Located in Kalamazoo, Michigan, our customers reach across midwest, the US and globally. Our goal is to serve our customers with premium outdoor products from quality manufacturers like BRP...

leadersrpmshop.com

Yamaha New OEM Exh Kit F200-250 04 Up, MAR-EXHKT-04-00

Leaders RPM Shop offers a wide range of recreation, powersports and marine parts, accessories, and gear. Located in Kalamazoo, Michigan, our customers reach across midwest, the US and globally. Our goal is to serve our customers with premium outdoor products from quality manufacturers like BRP...

leadersrpmshop.com

 

[Fishtales]

Like most things in boating, bend over and take it. Not much you can do. This prob has been known for years and Yamaha still can't make enough engines.

 

[Mike LaCroix]

Thank you all for your responses.
The kit cost me (in Massachusetts) $750, and I installed it myself with the help of years of mechanical experience and Utube videos, especially the boats.net series on the F225. Yamaha does not have the kits available. I had called about twenty dealers before I found one that was in a dust covered box that had been ordered about five years ago and the customer didn't follow through with the job. I was told the labor cost at a repair shop would have been expensive if anyone had time to do it.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Thank you all for your responses.
The kit cost me (in Massachusetts) $750, and I installed it myself with the help of years of mechanical experience and Utube videos, especially the boats.net series on the F225. Yamaha does not have the kits available. I had called about twenty dealers before I found one that was in a dust covered box that had been ordered about five years ago and the customer didn't follow through with the job. I was told the labor cost at a repair shop would have been expensive if anyone had time to do it.

How long did it take you to do on your own?

 

[Mike LaCroix]

It took me just over two days. After doing it, it’s not that hard. You just have to be diligent about keeping track of the bolts and the sequence of installation.

 

[Mike LaCroix]

Does anyone know if Yamaha is providing a discount on power heads that are damaged because of the defective exhaust?

 

[seasick]

Does anyone know if Yamaha is providing a discount on power heads that are damaged because of the defective exhaust?

In your dreams

 

[georgemjr]

There was a class action lawsuit over this, Yamaha won. In answer to your original question, you have 2 choices with that block. 1) you can have aluminum added on. That isn't easy and requires someone who knows what they are doing, as that aluminum is already contaminated (with oil, salt water, exhaust, etc) It would likely require a teardown of the block so the welder/machinist can work on the bare block. It requires preheating the metal before welding on new. Choice 2) use JB Weld marine. Add that on and then sand back to flat surface for mating. That stuff is super strong, there isn't any real pressure on it there, you just need a flat surface for the gasket to seal against, keeping the exhaust in the exhaust and the water in the water jacket. There are youtube videos on that. Before I would just replace a powerhead, i would JB Weld it and run it.