Fish finder/ GPS turns off when starting engine

Blaugrana

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Although this is more of an annoyance, I was curious what I should look for that might be causing it.

I have two old electronics that I always have on. For some reason the A60 turns off whenever I attempt to start the engine. I can’t remember if this happened prior to them installing a new starter for me a few weeks ago. The depth finder never turns off.

Any idea what’s going on?
 

Sparkdog118

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Sounds like a bad ground, loose cable, bad battery cable end, or an internally corroded battery switch.
 

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Voltage drop will kill the electronics for a sec and reset. I’ve replaced a lot of battery switches when electronics or radio will go off when engine is started or trimmed.
 

Blaugrana

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Ok. I am going to turn all of my electronics on to see if any other behave the same. No issue with the trim so far. It does it on both batteries even the brand new one so I was thinking a connection of some sort.

Typically, for the A60 would I find any connections by the switch panel or do they all run to the transom and battery? I have a nest of wires as my seafarer was fully loaded when new but nothing has been updated since then. I’ve been trying to keep my mind on learning the boat and not waste much of my attention on these electronics as I am mostly in the bay.
 

Sparkdog118

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Maybe a wire wiggle test will help you. Turn on electronics and start wiggling all the wires at battery, switch, panel etc. see if they interrupt
 

seasick

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When you start the motor, voltage drops of course due to the heavy current drawn. Many pieces of equipment require a minimum voltage to operate. Go below that and the unit will shut down.
If this always happened, it will be harder to trace since the initial wiring may be under sized. If it is something new, then you need to look for a bad connection or even a bad battery.
Note that most of the electronic loads on the accessory bus may not so sensitive to low voltage and turning them on won't help identify the problem.
Tracing can be tedious but if you replaced something (like that starter) and disconnected the battery cables when doing that job, then those connections should be looked at first. Make sure that the tie cables that connect the negative poles of all the batteries are connected. If all that works out, check the fuse for corrosion at the helm that the plotter is connected to. If none of that works and you have multiple batteries, swap the battery that the accessory bus is wired to with a different battery to see if the problem still occurs. If it doesn't the original battery may be weak.
Remember that ground connections are as important as the 12v feeds.
One test that can help identify excessive voltage drop is to measure the voltage drop under load. You don't need to test while cranking. To test you need a digital volt meter. Measure the voltage on the accessory bus at the helm with all devices turned off. Measure between the ground at the helm and the positive feed to the plotter. Let's say you get 12.5 volts. Now turn on all accessories , including spreader lights, radio plotter etc. Now measure the voltage. The plotter voltage should not be less than 3% lower than the first reading with no load, so something like 12.1 volts. If the difference is a lot larger than 3%, you have excessive voltage drop somewhere. That somewhere is not hard to find, you just need to do a similar voltage drop measurement starting at the battery and working forward.

Good luck.
 

Blaugrana

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Didn’t find anything yet. Batteries are good. Wire runs somewhere in the dash rather than directly to the back by the batteries. Reviewed the installation manual and know what to look for now...

When replacing the front bilge, I saw a couple of ground wires that were disconnected on the two Acc switches. No clue what they are for but I need to investigate further. Think I was good until I connected them so need to figure out what they are for before I try disconnecting to see if it solves my problem.

All cockpit, hardtop and accessory lights work without those switches on so I am clueless as to what they are for
 

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I just read your post again and you said that you don't remember if the plotter shut off before you replaced the starter. I believe that if it did, you would remember:)
 

Blaugrana

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I just read your post again and you said that you don't remember if the plotter shut off before you replaced the starter. I believe that if it did, you would remember:)

I do agree with that but also was the week I replaced the front bilge so not sure if me connecting lose wires on switch panel did something.

I tried wiggling all connections at the battery while it was on and nothing. I even had all electronics on including VHF, Deprh finder, the problem unit, and sonar (had it actively plotting with the bulb up top) when starting engine. Only the GPS/ Fish finder turned off. So I would think that unit would take less voltage than my sonar
 

seasick

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I do agree with that but also was the week I replaced the front bilge so not sure if me connecting lose wires on switch panel did something.

I tried wiggling all connections at the battery while it was on and nothing. I even had all electronics on including VHF, Deprh finder, the problem unit, and sonar (had it actively plotting with the bulb up top) when starting engine. Only the GPS/ Fish finder turned off. So I would think that unit would take less voltage than my sonar
It may draw less power but that may not have an bearing on what the plotter expects. It's the actual circuitry in the plotter that is shutting down the unit. On the other hand, it may be a clue that possibly the voltage at the plotter is different than at the radar. In theory they should be similar. If the plotter voltage when running is less it could mean that you have excessive voltage drop somewhere between the plotter power connector and the fuse buss at the helm. A dirty connection of one of the two power wires for the plotter or a dirty, corroded or loose fuse slot is possible. By two wires I am including the negative wire from the plotter to the main ground buss at the helm. See if you can measure the voltage to the radar and the plotter but note that they have to be powered up.
 

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Whenever I've had bad connections or weak batteries it was ALWAYS my garmin 4208 that gave low voltage errors. It wasn't the problem, but it was the thing that told me there was a problem. At first I would just gripe about the garmin but it was always right. Its the canary in the coal mine...
 

seasick

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In my case, it's the Lowrance that complains. I don't know if there is a problem or not so after much work and investigation, I now disable low voltage alarms. Note that a low voltage alarm is not the same thing as the unit shutting down. That is the seriously low voltage condition.
 

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In my case, it's the Lowrance that complains. I don't know if there is a problem or not so after much work and investigation, I now disable low voltage alarms. Note that a low voltage alarm is not the same thing as the unit shutting down. That is the seriously low voltage condition.
I was lowering the alarm threshold as a fix but ...if you are getting an alarm below an 11 volt threshold, you should find the problem because there is one.
Most electronics have a set threshold where it shuts off in order to prevent damage. Not all have an alarm.
It can be a momentary drop thats hard to figure out. If it can, try using the "capture" function of your digital volt meter to record the Hi & Lo volts when you start the engine.

Inspect the full length of starter cables for "green" and hard spots.. try using car jumper cables in parallel to the starter cables and see if you still have a problem.

Does the A60 connect to a fuse panel or is it wired back to the battery?
If you connect it directly to the battery does it still shut of when you start?

If you have a fuse panel ...Try running a temporary 8 gauge(or bigger) wire from your battery Negative to the Negative bus of your fuse panel (make sure its the ground bus not the Positive bus!!!). What happens when you start?

Try the same on the Positive side...Pos battery to pos fuse panel...
 

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Thanks for the feedback. Was basically out all day but did test the voltage...

The A60 connects to the fuse panel up front. The fuse panel has 12.6v and the end at the A60 unit is 12.6 as well. That’s good news as the wire is spliced and the end at the fuse has the wire somewhat exposed and some of it broken off. I still need to test the voltage when attempting to start the engine....Today, it did not turn off one time I started the engine because it was in the process of starting.

I’ll troubleshoot more tomorrow and this weekend. Thinking the starter might be a power drain but I’ll confirm what the drop is tomorrow
 

Blaugrana

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So tested the end of the A60 plug when starting the engine. Went from 12.43 to 8.95....

Thoughts? I need to test at the switch panel as well but not sure what is typical
 

Ky Grady

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Only time mine does it is late in the day if I've been drifting with FF/GPS and AM/FM and VHF on, drains my battery down to the point of a restart when I fire big motor up. If I remember to switch batteries, it doesn't do it.
 

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I have an A78 on my skiff that started doing the same thing. The cause was a weak battery that needed to be replaced. The voltage would drop to 9V when the engine was cranked. The battery was still strong enough to start the engine, but it failed a load test. Now with a fresh battery, the voltage never drops below 12V when I crank and the FF no longer shuts off.

It could be a bad connection but you need to suspect the battery first.
 

Blaugrana

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I have an A78 on my skiff that started doing the same thing. The cause was a weak battery that needed to be replaced. The voltage would drop to 9V when the engine was cranked. The battery was still strong enough to start the engine, but it failed a load test. Now with a fresh battery, the voltage never drops below 12V when I crank and the FF no longer shuts off.

It could be a bad connection but you need to suspect the battery first.

Ok. I did the voltage only on 1 of my batteries but it turns off on my new this year battery as well. I’ll test the voltage next time with that one as well.

Also, assume I should test the battery directly when starting to see if I get the same readout. My assumption is that this would rule out if there is a connection issue. Is that correct?
 

Doc Stressor

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That is correct. There will be a voltage drop, but it shouldn't get much below 12V.