Help with Fuel economy on GW 265 with F225's needed

[Bill_N]

I'm buying an '02 Grady 265 with F225's on it. It's in great shape and has low hours and seems like the right boat for us but I had heard that this boat with F225's would get 1.5 - 1.8 mpg. We took it out on Sat and while it seemed to run great the best I could out of it was maybe 1.4 mpg. This was with a full tank of fuel and water and 3 people on board.

What are other 265 owners with F225's getting for economy? Any tips to get that number up or do you attribute this to the fully loaded cond?

Thanks, Bill

 

[gradyfish22]

With full fuel that is about right, you may see 1.5 if the boat is trimmed correctly and it is flat calm. Unfortunately, many engine and boat brands run boats in unrealistic flat calm seas for data, as well as not testing with full tanks. I've found that full gas means more like 3/4, or they may try and use an equation to assume what full fuel will do from other data. Also, when tested the boats do not have bottom paint, that will kill about .1-.2mpg depending on how smooth it is and how much was applied. At most speeds you should see 1.4mpg, I stick to a speed where I see that and on rare occasions when its flat and I see 1.6 I get a huge smile on my face and then usually hit the throttles since I'm used to the bill at 1.4mpg anyways. If you had full fuel and obtained that efficiency I'd be happy, with full fuel and 700lb of ice with 4 guys and offshore gear I get about 1.2mpg. I've thought about changing my prop to what Yamaha tests the boat with, they claim better efficiency and cruise speed, I'd assume it would go up maybe .1-.2mpg at best but that is it. To see your best fuel efficiency, put the trims to bow up, then trim the engines up once on plane until you efficiency stops getting better and begins to get worse, the boat really likes bow and engines up.

 

[Bill_N]

Thanks for the info. Any idea where the performance report info is posted?
Even if unrealistic I'd like to see what props they're running etc.

 

[gradyfish22]

GRADY-WHITE BOATS' PERFORMANCE TEST
265 EXPRESS
Test Date: 6/14/2001
ENGINE 225 YAMAHA 4 STROKE
Prop Size:151/4 X 17 SSM
Accessory weight including fuel, persons, gear : 2275 LBS
Hardtop : YES
Bow Pulpit: YES
TESTED TESTED TESTED TESTED
R.P.M. M.P.H. G.P.H. M.P.G.
1000 5.4 2.6 2.4
1500 7.3 3.9 1.9
2000 8.4 5.2 1.6
OPTIMUM 2500 9.1 7.2 1.3
3000 15.2 9.35 1.6
CONDITIONS 3500 22.6 11.7 1.9
4000 28.6 15.25 1.9
4500 32.6 24.25 1.3
5000 36.9 24.25 1.5
5500 40.3 30.1 1.3
6000 44.2 36.1 1.2
Optimum cruise: 28.6 MPH @ 4000 RPM
Top recommended R.P.M. : 5000~6000
** This report should be used only as a general reference guide.**
The following is a list of variables that can affect performance :
Wind Engine Trim
Current Bottom Paint
Sea conditions Trim Tabs
Speed Curtains
Engine Performance Tops
Transducer Gear Placement
Trolling Time Prop Size / Condition / Type
12/18/2006

That is from Grady, they have 2275 in weight, a full tank of fuel and water puts you around 2000lbs already, add gear and 4 onboard and you are talking closer to 3000lb or more, plus they have no bottom paint.


This is from Yamaha

R P M M P H G P H M P G D b
1000 4.5 2.9 1.55 64
1500 6.9 4.1 1.68 69
2000 8.7 6.0 1.45 71
2500 11.4 8.6 1.33 77
3000 18.5 10.3 1.80 80
3500 28.7 13.5 2.13 81
4000 33.0 16.9 1.95 81
4500 37.8 21.4 1.77 83
5000 42.4 27.5 1.54 84
5500 46.6 34.7 1.34 88
6000 50.5 42.3 1.19 91

C o m m e n t s : Tested weight includes 1/2 tank of
fuel, three batteries, optional fiberglass hard top,
safety and test gear.

No. of People: 2
Air Te m p : 86°
Water Te m p : 74°
E l e v a t i o n : Sea Level
Wind Ve l o c i t y : 5-10 MPH
Horsepower:
Displacement:
Weight:
Gear Ratio:
Mounting Height:
Propeller (Dia/Pitch):
P r o p e l l e r Part #:
2 2 5
204.6 cu. in.
583 lbs.
2 . 0 0
# 1
15 1/4 x 19 SWS
6 R 4 - 4 5 9 7 0 - A 0 - 0 0 /
6 R 1 - 4 5 9 7 0 - A 0 - 0 0
L e n g t h :
B e a m:
We i g h t :
Max H.P. :
Fuel Capacity:
Weight As Tested:
25' 9"
9' 7”
5,390 lbs.
5 0 0
250 gals.
8,099 lbs.

This test is done with light gear, only 2 onboard and half fuel, so you are looking at atleast 1500+lbs more for a full loaded boat, plus no bottom paint.

I am curious as to what my boat woul;d run with the Yamaha tested props, I have the ones Grady used, but my boat turns up pretty well under full load and I am not sure I will have good results if i change it.

In both tests, adding over 1000lb to eash test for gear and people and fuel, plus adding bottom paint will drop their results by about .2mpg in flat calm seas, in rougher stuff I'd assume .3mpg drop. Unfortunetley many brands and even magazines test boats this way, IMHO it is poor way to test and misrepresentation of their products. Where I work we tests our boats with full fuel and water and bottom paint, along with basic gear and atleast 4 onboard, but usually it is 5 or more. Our boats are bigger so results are less effected by these variables, but we test the boat in real conditions to give the buyer the most accurate data for their boat. We test every boat before delivery, that also gives us a baseline for all boats we sell incase they ahve issues down the road and need service, we know how the boat should run as delivered. Hope this info helps you out, like I said for realistic numbers I'd knock maybe .3mpg off all the data atleast once the boat is on plane, at lower speeds the data will be effected less.

 

[Grog]

The second test was with 19" pitch props. If you can swing them you'll pick up MPG but you run fairly well loaded and it might be too much. Borrow a set and see what happens.

 

[gradyfish22]

Ran the boat today in flat seas with over 3/4 fuel and over 100lb of bait onboard and my livewell full of bait and water with 2 on board, got 1.6mpg at 34-35mph, roughly 4800-4900rpm. Got an increase in fuel economy after changing my plugs, they only have about 120 hours on them but I change them at the beginning of each season, they never run the same after you fog an engine. Plugs did not look bad but the engines ran way better after the change. With the four strokes, the engines like to run at 4200rpm or more on that hull it seems, below that will cut down on fuel efficiency and in many cases it will make the ride rougher as well, that hull likes to run fast.

 

[Bill_N]

I have the test data with 19 pitch props and the numbers are amazing. I may have to look for a set of 19's used just to try them. With fuel as high as it is, a gain of .3 or .4 would make it worthwhile.

I will play around with the trim etc to see what I get with the 17's, but I don't think the engines have ever been decarboned either. Do you guys decarbon your F225's? If so, how do you go about it?

Thx, Bill

 

[SlimJim]

heres what I got today, 3800RPM/28MPH/26.2KNOTS/16.4 TO 16.7 GPH on 200hp yamaha HPDI'S.

 

[Summer Rae]

265 Fuel economy

That sounds pretty good on the HPDIs... I am also looking at stepping up to a 265, and considering 200 HPDIs vs. the 225 4 strokes. What is the general consensus as to which is the best fit for this model? I am more concerned about overall fuel economy at a variety of speeds vs. top speed performance.

 

[BobP]

Per Grady, the 200 HPDIs stole the MPG crown over the F225s on the 282 Sailfish, what's the story with the 265? (Per Grady)

 

[gradyfish22]

Here is data for the HPDI's

GRADY-WHITE BOATS' PERFORMANCE TEST
265 Express
Test Date: 10/10/2000
Engine : 200 HPDI YAMAHA
Prop Size: 15 1/4 X 17 SSM
Accessory weight including fuel, persons, gear : 1690 LBS.
Hardtop : YES
Bow Pulpit: YES
TESTED TESTED TESTED TESTED
R.P.M. M.P.H. G.P.H. M.P.G.
1000 5.75 1.6 3.59
2000 8.8 7.3 1.21
3000 21.6 11.2 1.93
OPTIMUM 4000 33.1 17.1 1.94
5000 41.9 25.4 1.65
CONDITIONS 5600 46.9 39.9 1.18
Optimum cruise: 33 MPH @ 4000 RPM
Top recommended R.P.M. : 4500 ~ 5500
** This report should be used only as a general reference guide.**
The following is a list of variables that can affect performance :
Wind Engine Trim
Current Bottom Paint
Sea conditions Trim Tabs
Speed Curtains
Engine Performance Tops
Transducer Gear Placement
Trolling Time Prop Size / Condition / Type
11/14/2006

The HPDI's will run harder and faster with better fuel efficiency, but burn oil. In the end the overall cost will be almost exactly the same, but you will have more range with the HPDI's. I've owned both engines, the HPDI on my older Grady and the F225's on the express and both are awesome. The HPDI was by far one of , if not the best engine Yamaha ever built(excluding the bigger displacement models that never ran correctly, but the 150 and 200 are amazing) The fourstrokes are quieter and smoke free and have plenty of power on the 265, but the HPDI's run faster, not sure where you can run that fast honestly. Both are gret combos. The real question is what is more important to you and your needs, both will provide you a quality boat, but the HPDI's powered boats will be cheaper by a few bucks, the four strokes are harder to find and in more demand on that model.

 

[SlimJim]

well said, When I was looking the 265's with 4 stroke were all 10k to 30k more and I only found one that was 10k more all the rest were a 20k to 30k more then the HPDI'S. There were not many for sale as well. The 4 strokes will give you better resale as a lot of people want 4 strokes. I have had both 225 2004 4 stroke and 200 2001 HPDI's and liked both engines, the only thing I do not like about the HPDI's is a little smoke at start up and a little smell at a troll speed. The 4 stroke was quiet as can be, but the HPDI's are quiet too, just not as quiet as the 4 strokes. No exhust smell with the 4 stroke as well. Out of the hole or on a plane the HPDI's are faster and are very strong.

 

[BobP]

That's interesting. Better economy on a heavier boat:

Per Grady, the 200 HPDIs at 4000 RPM on the 282 Sailfish hit 2 mpg, 33 mph @ 16.4 GPH, same props, whereas the F225s couldn't muster any more than 1.7 mpg. At the near same boat speed of 33.8 mph, the F225s turned in a pathetic 1.6 mpg. Even flat out at 45 mph, the F225's higher RPM and valvetrain can't even help it come close to the valveless 200 HPDI, 1.3 vs. 1.1 mpg.

It must be magic. Like water from a faucet, now they pay for it in a bottle. Gotta luv those 4 stroke marketing gurus.

Slim - the reason the HPDI 265s are lower priced than F225s is because they were on the older 265s ever before the 4 stroke engine reached the nursery.
Older boat = lower price, has nothing to do with engine technology.

150/175/200/250/300 HPDIs were installed from the late 90's, then when 4 strokes appeared, each was replaced, more recently the F150 replaced the 150 HPDI. Nothing (from Yamaha) ever replaced the 175 HPDI, and I wouldn't call the F200 a replacement for the 200 HPDI, same goes for the F300 vs. 300 HPDI, no replacment there. I would say the F250 does covers the big block troublemaker 250HPDI.

 

[Summer Rae]

Fuel economy on 265

Thanks for the info. I did not realize that the HPDIs were that good, and I have noticed the significant price difference. One of the boats I am considering is a 2000 model w/ 4 strokes and a marlin tower/ bench seat without controls. I would really like to have this for cobia fishing, etc... Would you guys recommend staying away from something like that, as I have read comments about the 265 hull having a tendency to be slightly tender?

 

[BobP]

A tower on any Grady is going to make her tender as you say. That's why you won't find them on any Grady option list.

If you want it you will have to live with the side effect.

 

[gradyfish22]

The boat is slightly tender in a beam to, but you have to be in 4 ft seas to notice it, in anything less it is not noticable. It is not all that hard to keep your drift into the sea instead of beam to. This is due to the wide beam and sharp deep v on the boat, but having the wide beam opens up the cockpit and cabin as well as the helm for more usable space, and the deep v really cuts a chop well and keeps the hull from pounding. If you drift a bit in nasty stuff, toss a bucket witha rope attached off the transom or a drift anchor off the bow or stern depending on your fishing and that will eliminate any problems and keep 4 rods straight off the back plus it deadens the conditions on the boat. In 3 ft seas I run the same I would in anything less and in 4 ft or more I only adjust trim and running angle and try to keep the speed up, slowing down often makes it worse, that hull really loves to run in anything. We were set to buy a 265 express with HPDI's until we saw a great one fully rigged come on the market with four strokes. It came on the market and we made an offer 2 days later and owned it a week and half later, talk about a quick sale for that owner. For a fully rigged low hour 4stroke powered 265 with a custom alwgrip hull we got an awesome deal. Both boats ran excellent in sea trials and we would not have minded owning either, but for the deal we got on the 4 stroke powered boat it was worth the few extra bucks.

Bob, the 282 does better on fuel due to a lower beam to length ratio. A wide shorter boat will always burn more then a narrow longer one, notice most CC are long and narrow, especially the ones that run hard and fast. The down side is lost fishing room. I had the privilege of sitting on both a 282 and 265 docked next to one another which gave a great comparison having them side by side. The cockpits are similar in size but the express seems larger due to uncluttered space, plus the 282 puts you way off the transom which I hate for offshore fishing. I had no issues swinging tuna around the props with a 5'9" rod last season. The 282 has the walkaround which I miss but the cabin on the 265 is more suitable to my needs, I did not need the aft cabin which is usually used for storage anyways. I love the helm on the 265 better though, much more seating which is great for a crew when running offshore, also works well for overnighters as one can sleep on the stbd bench seat and sleep and be right in the action when a rod goes off. I do not think I could by a boat without a center helm after this boat, it is just too comfortable and the line of sight is awesome and makes maneuvering in tight quarters very easy with nothing in your line of sight.

 

[BobP]

Yes the 265 has the ideal fishable stern for an outboard, IMHO hence all that extra room gained, and lost to the (junk in the trunk) euro drive on the 282.

I would have owned a 265 if not for the cabin headroom - which doesn't suit me. It was the deal breaker.
The taller cabin on the Sailfish works fine.

According to Grady 2003, the two boats have very similar cockpit sq footage 57/58, I wonder (?)

And I did expect the similar beam 265 @ 400+ lbs lighter to be a a bit better on fuel than the 282 while carrying same fuel load.

 

[gradyfish22]

Bob, I also have a 2002 which was the first hull design, the 2003 and newer have 1 degree less in deadrise at all locations and get slightly better fuel economy from what I hear, maybe .1mpg gain, nothing huge but with rising fuel prices it all helps. I've been trying to run my rig light to do better on fuel and save money but the price went from $4.00 on may 1 to $4.15 in a week, then in another week it was raised to $4.20 and then $4.35. With the rising costs I might as well fill it now before it keeps goes up.

 

[Summer Rae]

Help w/ Fuel economy on a 265

Thanks for the info. Gradyfish, that is a beautiful 265 with the light blue. I am sure you enjoy it. Maybe I'll buy it from you when the come out with the 28 express I am hearing about! (I agree with a previous comment in that it would be nice if they made a large L seat around the helm like the new Regulator express, Pursuit 315, or Mako 29...)

What is your opinion of the marlin tower on a 265? Do you think that the side effects would outweigh the benefits? What is your guess as to how much it would effect fuel economy?

 

[fishingFINattic]

Re: Help w/ Fuel economy on a 265

What is your opinion of the marlin tower on a 265? Do you think that the side effects would outweigh the benefits?

I think you would only have structural problems if you put a tower on a 265.....

I have sheered the mounting bolts from running in rough seas, without any additional weight....

Grady doesnt even recommend a life raft or out riggers up there.

Tim