help with repower on older 208

[awp]

I have read many of the posts here about repowering on the 208 but my situation is a little different I think. I plan to repower my 2000 208 that has a 200 OX-66 with a 225 4S Yamaha.

I emailed Grady about it and they told me that they recommended that I stay "near the 500 lb." limit of the current outboard. I asked why that was needed and was told that 208's "were modified to accept the heavier weight of four stroke engines when they became available". No specifics were given about how they were modified or what problems were found.

I asked for additional information and was told that I should "simulate the extra weight and check water levels and trim". I will do that I am sure, but does anyone here have "an older model" 208 with a 225 4S as power? If so what has been your experience with water levels and water in the cockpit and trim? Are there any other thoughts anyone has about the problems or advantages of such a repower choice?

 

[wahoo33417]

AWP: I would agree with simulating the weight, then decide. I previously had a 1995 208 with a 150 two-stroke while a friend had a 208 with a 225 two-stroke. We both a agreed that my boat gave a better ride in a chop. It was just easier for me to keep the nose down. Of course, his boat handled a full load of divers better than mine did.

If I still had the 208 and wanted to add engine weight I think I would also add some good-sized trim tabs.

Rob

 

[Parthery]

GW went to a thicker transom and also raised the height of the scuppers...if I recall the changes were made in either '03 or '04 to accomodate the weight of the 4 stroke.

If you reach out to GW Customer Service, they can tell you the pros and cons of repowering your particular hull. You may want to think about an E-Tec or HPDI, as well.

 

[Maine Adventure]

Repower

I have a 1994 208 with a Yammy 1994 SWS 175 hp 2S.

Seems like Grady wants you to stay within the 500 lb limit?

That is a big motor, 225 V-6 4 S, for that boat.

Do you have your heart set on that motor?

The Verado 175, Yamaha HPDI 200 and Suzuki 4 S 175 HP are all lighter than the Yammy 225 4S. And, from what I hear, all offer plenty of giddy-up for the 208.

I would really try to stay within the 500# limit.

According to my catalog the 1994 SWS Yammy 200 hp weighs 421# , I would assume the 2000 SWS II weighs about the same.

What does the 225 4S weigh?

Jim :roll:

 

[CJBROWN]

Re: Repower

>snip

The Verado 175, Yamaha HPDI 200 and Suzuki 4 S 175 HP are all lighter than the Yammy 225 4S. And, from what I hear, all offer plenty of giddy-up for the 208.
>snip
What does the 225 4S weigh?

X2
F225=583 lbs.
Here I am touting four-strokes over on the Sailfish thread, but I gotta say, for a 208 the 2-strokes make a lot of sense, depending on how you use the boat. While my F150 is certainly adequate 95% of the time, a few more ponies would come in handy once in a while. It's when it's calm and you really want to boogie, I'll run mine at 4700-5000 to get 32-33 out of 'er. Would be nice to hit that without running up the revs.

If you do any water sports with the boat a little more power would also come in handy, like pulling up a skier. Kingj's Vedette (2001 - 208) runs a HPDI-150 and it definately accellerates faster, and loves to run WOT as much as you could want.

I personally would not select that motor. It's more power than the boat can handle in anything but very calm water. The extra weight is something that's hanging there ALL the time. If two of us stand in the corner when my live well is in, we start taking on water thru the scupper - this on a '06 that's supposedly designed for the extra weight. My motor is a hundred pounds lighter. I suspect the location of my 32 gallon Kodiak well (right in front of the motor) would pretty well simulate the extra weight of the F225 on the transom. It will handle it ok, as long as you don't walk back there if someone is sitting in the rear seat, or if one is reeling and one is gaffing or netting fish. You look down and whoa, it's a flood.

If you're heart is set on a four-stroke, seriously consider the suzuki 175. If you want to save some $$, find a good 200HPDI take-off. You might do that for well under $10G. And they are virtually bulletproof.

 

[awp]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Wahoo - one of my concerns is how the 208 would handle in different sea conditions with the extra weight. I do have large trim tabs though.

Parthery - thanks for that specific info - I didn't know what Grady did to compensate for the weight which helps me understand what my problems might be if I ignore their advice.

Maine - I agree that the 225 4S is a big and heavy motor for the 208, but I actually got fired up about that motor looking at the "performance data" tab of the 208 at the Grady site (http://www.gradywhite.com/208/). As you can see the 200 and 225 4S both show better mpg than the 150 at cruise. The 200 and 225 and 250 weigh essentially the same, so my thought was to go with the 225 to keep a semblance of a "hole shot" and the better mpg than my OX-66. The information I have found on HDPI indicates that it may be 15-20% better in mpg than the OX but much less than the 4S.

CJ - Actually I'm not thinking of the 225 4S for the WOT speed but more for the efficiency or mpg (see above). I want to be able to pull skiers but probably won't do much of that. Most of my running will be offshore in coastal mississippi and louisiana in the marshes. So I think I need the efficiency at cruise - to cross the choppy 12 to 20 miles to the islands or marsh, the power to outrun summer T-storms if I need to, and the increase in mpg from roughly 2.5 to 4.4 (read $). I had considered the Suzuki but so far have discounted it because of the extra cost of changing out all the gauges and such. I may end up with it as the best alternative anyway. I had also discounted the HDPI and other two strokes because of the relatively poor fuel efficiency. I had also considered - and asked Grady about - using a kicker if I decided to keep the OX. But the downside of that is the 100 pounds on the transom, the unbalanced weight, and the lack of mpg.

Boxed myself in I guess. I just need a 175 4S from Yamaha that is around 500 lbs.

 

[awp]

more info

I just download the manual for the 2000 225 OX 66 which lists it's weight at from 522 to 538 lbs depending upon the model used. Since Grady listed the maximum horsepower of a 2000 208 at 230 then one could assume that this hull was designed so that a 225 OX 66 could have been installed. Given that, then the repower of a F225 at 583 lbs doesn't seem like much of a difference - roughly 46 lbs. So what do you guys think?

 

[captbone]

AWP

Congrads on your repower. You are going to love that boat with a new engine. The DFI and four strokes are amazing.

Having said that, I think that you maybe too wrapped up and wishfully thinking that the 3.6liter Yamaha 200/225 four stroke will work on your hull. Even though it doesnt look too far off on paper, it would be a huge mistake to repower your boat with the engine (my opinion.)

That engine is just too heavy. While I am sure that it has been done, I have not seen an older 20ft Adventure with a OX66 225hp engine. They are too heavy for the hull also.

Alot of people have said it was too heavy including Grady.

There are so many other choices that would be so much better.

175 Suzuki 4 stroke
175 Verado
175 Optimax
200 HPDI
200/225hp Optimax
175 ETEC
200/225 ETEC

Just my 2 cents

 

[ScottM]

I agree with captbone. My '78 204-C is rated for 230hp as well, but I'd never consider a big 4S on there due to weight. When my boat was built, a 200hp V6 was around 400lbs, significantly lighter than today's 4S motors. One thing I'm contending with too is the 20" transom height, which owners of the newer 204s and 208s don't have to worry about as much. Keeping it light on my boat is key, so I'm shopping for a 175-200hp 2S. Just my .02.

 

[captbone]

The lightest engine that size is the

2006 (late year made) 175hp Johnson carb for $8800, a couple Evinrude dealer here on LI still have them.

You can still find them left over.

The 140hp Suzuki 4 stroke is also not a bad choice if you can live with a 23-24mph cruise.

 

[fishhrd]

I just repowered a 1997 209 grady with a 225 honda 4s. I need to put trim tabs on boat and need to change props. All in all, I like the motor and do not have water come in through the scuppers. The ride in rough water is not as good as it use to be because I cannot keep the nose down but I think tabs will take care of this problem.

 

[awp]

Hey, finally somebody who has some experience with this. Thanks for responding fishhrd. Can you tell us anything else like the mpg or gph? I don't know the similarities between the scupper placement on your 209 and the 208 but I would assume there isn't much difference. Again thanks for your info.

 

[BobP]

Awp -

if you really want to see the difference yourself and are willing to make an effort - try this -

Figure the difference in weight, increase it by 50%, then go to Home Depot and buy the weight in play sand in the clear 50 lbs bags, less than $4.00 per bag. So if it's 100 lb difference, get three bags at 150 lbs.

Place them on top of each other right in the midde of the deck against the stern in the cockpit, go for a ride, gas the boat up and load the boat and do whatever you normally do and note the difference.

Opinions are subjective, this will not be, for less than $15 bucks.

Then if you are like, me, take back the sand bags and get a refund ! Of if not so inclined, cut the bags open and dump them over the side.

As far as the strength of the transom goes, that's another story - can't assist with that.

For a bracketed boat, I'd go double the weight difference.

 

[fishhrd]

I repowered from a yamaha 200. The honda 225 tops out at 45 mph but that is with curtains and t-top. I cruise at 35 mph getting a little over 3mpg if I remember correctly. That is the biggest difference from the old motor because top end was about the same but cruising speed and gas mileage is much better. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Matt

 

[fishhrd]

If you repower with bigger 4 sroke, make sure the cowling will fit. One problem with the honda is that when the motor is tilted all the way up when trailering, the cowling will hit when leaning on the side and scratch the motor. I place bungee cords around the wheel when trailering to rememdy the problem but just wanted to give you a heads up.

 

[BobP]

Correct, the further forward the more weight to add.


Good luck!

 

[BobP]

That's interesting, my post was placed before AWPs (?)

 

[awp]

BobP - thanks for the suggestion. I actually have some old barbell weights that I was going to try and put on top of the OX 66 to check the scuppers and such and then put them in front of motor in the well, since I can't attach them to the top, and then run around some to see if I notice any difference. I assume the 50% more weight was to account for the weight not being placed in the same place as the motor, right? I'll post to let you know what happens - hopefully with some pics.

fishhrd - thanks for the heads up on the cowling - the marine tech I am using for some other repairs has made mention of his concern about that too when we talk about the 4S. Glad to hear the cruising speed and gas mileage are better because that's what I'm looking for.

Right now I am having a "flow master" installed so I can make a better decision about all of this by checking my current mpg/gph figures against whatever published figures I can find on the 4S. It's hard to make adequate comparisons though because of the wide differences in tested boat weight and hull shapes, etc. I'm kinda under some pressure to get this decision made asap since the added three year warranty on Yamaha's is supposed to end March 31st. And I'm pretty much down to Yamaha or OX 66 since there are few maintenance type outboard dealers around since the big blow. The Suzuki's look good especially the 175 because it is close to 500lbs but there is just nobody to take care of it.

Thanks again for your posts