what would the fuel burn be at say a 30 mph cruise on a 1990 252 sailfish with twin 2000 225hp ficht evinrudes? would it get 2mpg?
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sailfish 252 fuel burn twin 225 ficht 2000's
- Thread starter mrbacklash
- Start date
My guess is you would be in the neighborhood of 1.6 to 1.9. I have twin 225 OX66s on my '93 Sailfish and I can get 1.7 on flat water at right around 28 mph. They have proven to be pretty darn efficient at cruise, close to my buddies 225 Opti in fact.
Do some research on those 225 Fichts. I could be wrong, but I think that was a very bad year for the big block Ficht.
Do some research on those 225 Fichts. I could be wrong, but I think that was a very bad year for the big block Ficht.
interesting???
forgive me if i'm wrong....but....isn't that much power on those boats against the rating on the hull from gw ??? in other words,these boats are overpowered ??? that's not good,how do you get the boat insured ??? did you know,if you're involved in a boating accident,and the boat you own,the max hp has been exceeded,you've got some explaining to do...personally,i would avoid that rig with the fichts,the engines are a bad subject,the fact it's over powered is worse....keep looking,you're gonna find a better deal... :wink:
forgive me if i'm wrong....but....isn't that much power on those boats against the rating on the hull from gw ??? in other words,these boats are overpowered ??? that's not good,how do you get the boat insured ??? did you know,if you're involved in a boating accident,and the boat you own,the max hp has been exceeded,you've got some explaining to do...personally,i would avoid that rig with the fichts,the engines are a bad subject,the fact it's over powered is worse....keep looking,you're gonna find a better deal... :wink:
I have to agree with both posts above. The Fichts were not the best engine and were problem prone. Many of the issues were figured out over time, but that doesn't mean your engines are problem free. IMHO you are looking at a headache on your hands. Like Jimmy said, I believe the boat is over powered as well. Never buy a boat that is overpowered, there is a reason it has this rating. Plus, on that hull, added weight may not put the scuppers and transom at a good height which will effect ride, kill efficiency and will also put you and your crew at risk. I would not suspect that boat to get 2mpg, if you saw 1.6 you would be lucky. Not to mention that it will probably dig a hole in your pocket and be out of the water a bit, that engine was off the market quickly due to its problems. If you look on the market, usually boats powered by those engines move the slowest. Like Jimmy has stated, keep looking you will find yourself a better deal on a safer boat. You do not want to make a poor investment, boats are not cheap. If that owner overpowered that boat, who knows where else he took risks or short cuts.
If you are looking at a boat with FICHT engines make sure they are RAM FICHT. They fixed the problems and introduced tham as a RAM FICHT. the 225 non RAM were problems. jh
Re: interesting???
You are correct Jimmy. My rig is rated for twin 200s and currently has twin 225s. She was like that when I bought her, and I knew it. I even signed a disclosure stating that fact. However, before I closed I contacted my insurance co. to make sure they would provide coverage. I'm sure I could have just told them what the current power was and never mentioned that she was overpowered, but I didn't want to hide that fact. I had to provide them with all sorts of figures on the boat and motors so they could make their decision. In the end, I was told coverage was not a problem and they would write a policy.
I also have email correspondence from Grady telling me that the boat can handle the additional weight (2 x 494 lbs) over twin 200s.
In addition to that, the boat was certified by the Coast Guard for charters before I bought it.
Had I not had all those things, I wouldn't have bought it. But since I did, I figured I was safe and moved forward with the purchase. That being said, if I were to repower I would go with 200 Optis.
jimmy's marine service said:
You are correct Jimmy. My rig is rated for twin 200s and currently has twin 225s. She was like that when I bought her, and I knew it. I even signed a disclosure stating that fact. However, before I closed I contacted my insurance co. to make sure they would provide coverage. I'm sure I could have just told them what the current power was and never mentioned that she was overpowered, but I didn't want to hide that fact. I had to provide them with all sorts of figures on the boat and motors so they could make their decision. In the end, I was told coverage was not a problem and they would write a policy.
I also have email correspondence from Grady telling me that the boat can handle the additional weight (2 x 494 lbs) over twin 200s.
In addition to that, the boat was certified by the Coast Guard for charters before I bought it.
Had I not had all those things, I wouldn't have bought it. But since I did, I figured I was safe and moved forward with the purchase. That being said, if I were to repower I would go with 200 Optis.
Re: interesting???
certified for charters ??? that boat is certified for more than 6 people ??? the only charter boats that need to be certified,are boats carrying more than 6 people...hence the term "oupv" opertator of an uninspected passenger carrying vessel,uninspected meaning,the boat carrys 6 or less people for hire...
i want to make this chrystal clear... i'm NOT giving ANYONE a hard time !!!
isn't it easier to just follow the mfg's reccomendation ??? why over power ?? doesn't make any sense,the additional 50hp,is it really worth the hassle ??? g/w signed off on this rig,the company allowed you to overpower the boat ??? you have this in writing ??? if that's ok,then why does that boat carry a maximum rated hp capacity of 400 ??? why not put triple 200's on it ??? get the point ??? why does the mfg have a maximum hp rating on the boat,bascially what you're saying is,it's ok to use any engine you feel like putting on,right??? personally,i would NEVER touch a boat that's over powered,you're asking for trouble...and i seriously doubt a mfg,such as grady white,would "sign off" on overpowering one of thier boats...
gw204 said:In addition to that, the boat was certified by the Coast Guard for charters before I bought it.jimmy's marine service said:
certified for charters ??? that boat is certified for more than 6 people ??? the only charter boats that need to be certified,are boats carrying more than 6 people...hence the term "oupv" opertator of an uninspected passenger carrying vessel,uninspected meaning,the boat carrys 6 or less people for hire...
i want to make this chrystal clear... i'm NOT giving ANYONE a hard time !!!
isn't it easier to just follow the mfg's reccomendation ??? why over power ?? doesn't make any sense,the additional 50hp,is it really worth the hassle ??? g/w signed off on this rig,the company allowed you to overpower the boat ??? you have this in writing ??? if that's ok,then why does that boat carry a maximum rated hp capacity of 400 ??? why not put triple 200's on it ??? get the point ??? why does the mfg have a maximum hp rating on the boat,bascially what you're saying is,it's ok to use any engine you feel like putting on,right??? personally,i would NEVER touch a boat that's over powered,you're asking for trouble...and i seriously doubt a mfg,such as grady white,would "sign off" on overpowering one of thier boats...
Maybe certified was the wrong word. I do know that the former owner went though all the necessary steps to get it "approved" for charters. I don't know what that involves, but I know it required some sort of inspection and the power never came up as an issue.
gw204 said:
there's no "approval" needed for 6 or less paying people...you can use an 18 bayliner center console,for charters,providing you have the correct saftey equipment...there's a courtesey inspection available,it checks to be sure you have all the required saftey equipment,this is only for "oupv"'s,but this inspection isn't required...i don't believe your boat is "t" boat capable...that means,it's able to take more than 6 people plus a crew...this is determined by various things,such as documentation...build specs,etc....
if a boat is over powered,and it's operated in certain states,i believe florida is one of those states,there's a huge fine involved...
In all seriousness, I remember the cover of a BoatUS showing a Fitch of the early years that had burned on a transom of the boat.
With that said, i have been on gw204's boat a couple of times and she seems powered about right with the 225s. I dont see how 200's would make the boat a better performer. Both the 200's and 225's weigh about the same so weight is not an issue. Besides, it allows the boat cruise at a slightly lower rpm and puttling less load on the engine. This is also important when running in the snotty stuff and you are "bogging" the engine more. Of course gw204's boat will run close to 50mph at WOT but who runs at WOT? Well maybe the go fast guys but not your typical Grady owner. Of course this is my experience with gw204's boat. His boat is a SeaV2 hull so that may affect the performance vs a 1990 pre SeaV2 hull.
I will also say that i am impressed with the fuel burn of the ox66's. They certainly dont burn the fuel of my old 225 Carbed Merc.
With that said, i have been on gw204's boat a couple of times and she seems powered about right with the 225s. I dont see how 200's would make the boat a better performer. Both the 200's and 225's weigh about the same so weight is not an issue. Besides, it allows the boat cruise at a slightly lower rpm and puttling less load on the engine. This is also important when running in the snotty stuff and you are "bogging" the engine more. Of course gw204's boat will run close to 50mph at WOT but who runs at WOT? Well maybe the go fast guys but not your typical Grady owner. Of course this is my experience with gw204's boat. His boat is a SeaV2 hull so that may affect the performance vs a 1990 pre SeaV2 hull.
I will also say that i am impressed with the fuel burn of the ox66's. They certainly dont burn the fuel of my old 225 Carbed Merc.
interesting...
no one is discussing the performance of the boat...the fact is the factory reccomends 400 total hp as the maximum horsepower engines on the boat,exceeding that 400 number isn't the best idea,that number is there for a reason-get it ??
"bogging the engine",this is usually caused by running too much pitch in the props....
"close to 50mph",i have a customer,he's a member of this board,"stinky fingers",his 25 trophy pro is powered by 200efi mercs,it will excede 50mph..interesting huh ???again,not to beat a dead horse, overpowering your boat is dangerous as well as asking for trouble with insurance and liability...if the boat was safe with 450hp then the mfg would've given the boat that rating,truth is,it doesn't have that rating,and i find it hard to believe the mfg,grady white,would "sign off" on exceeding the rated horse power on one of their hulls...sorry guys...the boat,in my opinion,isn't safe,and it shouldn't be operated untill the correct size engines are installed,i also find it hard to believe an insurance company allowed a boat that's over powered to be insured by them,it doesn't make much sense...
here's a hypothetical for you guys....
if a 19' center console boat had a max hp rating of 150hp,the owner,installed a 200hp engine would you consider that ok ??? now,take the same boat,install a 250hpdi engine,is that ok ??? what about twin 150's,is that ok ???
that placedr stating mx capacity,as well as max hp is on there for a reason,exceeding any of those numbers is absolutley assinine.... :wink: :wink: trying to pass it off as ok,is even dumber...
B-Faithful said:
no one is discussing the performance of the boat...the fact is the factory reccomends 400 total hp as the maximum horsepower engines on the boat,exceeding that 400 number isn't the best idea,that number is there for a reason-get it ??
"bogging the engine",this is usually caused by running too much pitch in the props....
"close to 50mph",i have a customer,he's a member of this board,"stinky fingers",his 25 trophy pro is powered by 200efi mercs,it will excede 50mph..interesting huh ???again,not to beat a dead horse, overpowering your boat is dangerous as well as asking for trouble with insurance and liability...if the boat was safe with 450hp then the mfg would've given the boat that rating,truth is,it doesn't have that rating,and i find it hard to believe the mfg,grady white,would "sign off" on exceeding the rated horse power on one of their hulls...sorry guys...the boat,in my opinion,isn't safe,and it shouldn't be operated untill the correct size engines are installed,i also find it hard to believe an insurance company allowed a boat that's over powered to be insured by them,it doesn't make much sense...
here's a hypothetical for you guys....
if a 19' center console boat had a max hp rating of 150hp,the owner,installed a 200hp engine would you consider that ok ??? now,take the same boat,install a 250hpdi engine,is that ok ??? what about twin 150's,is that ok ???
that placedr stating mx capacity,as well as max hp is on there for a reason,exceeding any of those numbers is absolutley assinine.... :wink: :wink: trying to pass it off as ok,is even dumber...
I agree with Jimmy, being in the boating industry, and knowing how conservative Grady is, I am positive they did not sign off on those engines. They may have said yes it can handle the WEIGHT!!! No boat builder will EVER say it is ok to overpower a boat, that puts them at liability, unless the person who did so was a complete IDIOT(and probably no longer works there), then I doubt it happened that way. More then likely, it was a phone call asking if it was possible to put an engine of "x" weight on that boat. I had done that when I repowered my other Grady. Grady simply asked how much it weighed, they never asked what engine it was, they said to me" You can handle the weight you plan to repower with but make sure you follow the HP specs that are posted on the boat. They are there for a reason. Regardless of what documnetation you have, if the Coast Guard pulls you over and sees that plate, you WILL be fined regardless of what state you are in. You can....and this is a big can....get that plate reissued for that boat to state it can handle that power, but I believe the builder has to sign off on it, I don;t see that happening unless lawyers were involved and then what is the point. I'm also not sure how much I would trust the insurance on that boat. The company may not be aware it is overpowered and may not cover you if they find out and you are in a big accident, not sure who you have or what they cover, everyone is different but just be careful. IMHO I would never buy a boat that is modified beyond the point of what is was designed for. The boat may operate fine but it is pushing the limits, push it enough and it spells disaster. I doubt gw204 pushes his boat to the max so he may never see a problem, but there are many out there who do overpower and then push it to the max and wonder why things went wrong. Just want to see everyone safe out there.
gradyfish22 said:
You are correct. That's exactly what they said and my insurance co. is well aware of the fact that I'm running 50 HP over the recommended max.
easy there...
listen brian,i'm not giving you a hard time,so don't think so...
the mfg of the boat,they've not "signed off" on this repower,your ins co is "aware" of this...spells trouble to me,personally,i wouldn't touch this on a bet...it doesn't matter if the boat is pushed or not,overpowered is overpowered,and overpowered is another word for big trouble...the company who hung those engines,the're just as responsible,the owner,for pushing for those engines is just,if not more guilty,you,brian,for purchasing the boat,are well aware of the fact...and anyone who purchases your rig is asking for trouble,call any insurance company ask if they will grant coverage on a boat that's overpowered,i sincerley doubt the company will-too much of a liability...common sense...i didn't know you had this much power on the boat,i recall you sent me a "pm" detailing the problem with a knock in the one engine...i didn't recall you stating they were 225's...this is a problem bro...
calling and having someone say"sure the boat will handle the engines" and actually having a company step up and sign off IN WRITING,the fact it's ok you exceeded the max hp rating given to the boat...big difference...personally,i wouldn't run that rig on a bet...think about this...ins co's are not in the buisness of "paying out",right ?? ou're involved in an accident,someone runs into your rig,the investigation uncovers your rig,it has been over powered-the seed is planted and it's gonna get ugly-common sense bro....it's called "asking for trouble"... sorry man... :cry: i would treat this rig,and ANY other rig,that's been overpowered, like kryptonite...i would be willing to bet you could be held liable for selling the rig in it's present,overpowered condition,if i were you i would check into all this,it may be a blessing in disguise you haven't sold your rig yet...look into this....
listen brian,i'm not giving you a hard time,so don't think so...
the mfg of the boat,they've not "signed off" on this repower,your ins co is "aware" of this...spells trouble to me,personally,i wouldn't touch this on a bet...it doesn't matter if the boat is pushed or not,overpowered is overpowered,and overpowered is another word for big trouble...the company who hung those engines,the're just as responsible,the owner,for pushing for those engines is just,if not more guilty,you,brian,for purchasing the boat,are well aware of the fact...and anyone who purchases your rig is asking for trouble,call any insurance company ask if they will grant coverage on a boat that's overpowered,i sincerley doubt the company will-too much of a liability...common sense...i didn't know you had this much power on the boat,i recall you sent me a "pm" detailing the problem with a knock in the one engine...i didn't recall you stating they were 225's...this is a problem bro...
calling and having someone say"sure the boat will handle the engines" and actually having a company step up and sign off IN WRITING,the fact it's ok you exceeded the max hp rating given to the boat...big difference...personally,i wouldn't run that rig on a bet...think about this...ins co's are not in the buisness of "paying out",right ?? ou're involved in an accident,someone runs into your rig,the investigation uncovers your rig,it has been over powered-the seed is planted and it's gonna get ugly-common sense bro....it's called "asking for trouble"... sorry man... :cry: i would treat this rig,and ANY other rig,that's been overpowered, like kryptonite...i would be willing to bet you could be held liable for selling the rig in it's present,overpowered condition,if i were you i would check into all this,it may be a blessing in disguise you haven't sold your rig yet...look into this....
Capt Bill
GreatGrady Captain
Not to beat a dead horse, but since I'm the former owner, I'll jump in here for a sec. I requested the USCG OUPV inspection; I wanted to meet all requirements. I called the CG station, described the vessel, and the scheduled an appointment. When the time came, 2 CG inspection officers came to the slip behind my house, and performed said inspection. It took several hours. The vessel passed and the CG put an OUPV placard on the boat. Yes, they observed the hp rating on the placard, but the inspection does not include being at or under the rating. Here's why:
Now, let me say that I am not condoning, or advising anyone to put more hp on the back of their boat, than the maximum on the placard, but I will tell you that on vessels over 20' in length, that rating is only the manufacturer's recommendation. Nothing more. In fact, there is not even a CG requirement FOR a ratings placard, on boats over 20'.
My insurance company (different one from Brian's) had no problem with the added HP, and I had that in writing, as well as a policy that stated the actual HP that was on the boat. That way, if there was ever a claim involving any kind of accident, it would be clear that they (the insurance co) insured the vessel with that hp. As Brian said, he also checked wit his carrier, and they had no problem with is, and put it in writing as well.
Again, I am not advising anyone to hang more ponies on the back than the manufacturer recommends.
Now, let me say that I am not condoning, or advising anyone to put more hp on the back of their boat, than the maximum on the placard, but I will tell you that on vessels over 20' in length, that rating is only the manufacturer's recommendation. Nothing more. In fact, there is not even a CG requirement FOR a ratings placard, on boats over 20'.
My insurance company (different one from Brian's) had no problem with the added HP, and I had that in writing, as well as a policy that stated the actual HP that was on the boat. That way, if there was ever a claim involving any kind of accident, it would be clear that they (the insurance co) insured the vessel with that hp. As Brian said, he also checked wit his carrier, and they had no problem with is, and put it in writing as well.
Again, I am not advising anyone to hang more ponies on the back than the manufacturer recommends.
that's true about the placard,however,try and overpower a boat,that's under warranty,see what that mfg says if there's a problem....why ANYONE would overpower a boat is a mystery to me,i don't get it ??? an oupv inspection is no big deal,the mso office sends out a team,they go over the saftey equipment on the boat,check out your ticket and be sure you've got a drug card to back up your ticket,basically that's it...it doesn't guarantee a sea worthy boat,it means absolutley nothing...it's strictly voluntary....i've had enough of this topic,and i'm sorry i men tioned anything...put what every engine you want on your boats,i mean,hey,what does a mfg know about max reccomended hp anyway :roll: :roll:Capt Bill said:
Capt Bill is correct with the boats over 20" statement. All you need to do is remove the plate. If you want you can request a new plate from the state that the boat is reg. in. All you need to do is fill out a form with the info they ask and let them know the power that is on there and you will get a plate back with that HP if the paperwork is correct. All states may not be like this but most are.
The 90 degree Ficht engine is a fine engine with very little problems. The only problem you may have is the emm. When that does go the new one you get will have the BRP circuit board in it. The 200 and the 225 Ficht weight the same and the 200 is more then 200 hp at the prop so your not to far off from the 225.
Yes the early, early fichts blew off motor covers. There are safty programs built into the emm to prevent this.
The 90 degree Ficht engine is a fine engine with very little problems. The only problem you may have is the emm. When that does go the new one you get will have the BRP circuit board in it. The 200 and the 225 Ficht weight the same and the 200 is more then 200 hp at the prop so your not to far off from the 225.
Yes the early, early fichts blew off motor covers. There are safty programs built into the emm to prevent this.
twin yams
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in answer to original question reference fuel burn, i do not think you would see 2.0 mpg, i think it will be closer to 1.25 mpg-- have buddy who has 225's on sailfish--it is not good
Capt Bill
GreatGrady Captain
Jimmy, you told us you opinion on this topic, and I have stated only facts. My boat had been insured with two different AAA rated insurance carriers, and I don't think that either of them just flipped a coin to decide if they should insure a '93 Sailfish with twin 225's. More likely, they contacted Grady White, and got something from them (even an email) that indicated that the particular make, model and year would be safe power with those engines. You said it, and it's true, that insurance companies don't like paying out claims, so why the hell would they insure the boat unless the inderwriter was told that it would be safe (with those engines), to do so.