I am currently looking at an 82 225 Sailfish w/o a hardtop. If I buy the boat I would like to install a used hardtop. My question is would I have to find one specific to that year or would I have a range of years to choose from? Also would any reinforcements have to be made? Thanks in advance.
Sailfish hardtop question
- Thread starter gradywhiteman
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Is that model # correct? I believe in '82 the Sailfish was a 25' boat with outboards and the model numbers 25_. My Kingfish (in '83 a Kingfish was a Sailfish with an I/O - same boat different power) is a model 254. A 225 would be a 22' boat and not a sailfish I think.
At any rate I looked into a hardtop years ago for my '83 Kingfish. In the end I went with a radar arch but I found these guys http://www.wmwmarine.com/accessories.php. This would be for a new top and you mentioned used. I'm not sure how clean and sound a 25 year old used hardtop might be. At the time and perhaps even today they were the OEM supplier for Grady. Back then,1989, they would only supply hardtops for a GW through a GW dealer, they could not sell direct. At that time they had the standard hardtop that GW used and a heavy duty version. The HD version looked very nice. IIRC the heavy duty version for a similar 25' of another make, that they would sell direct, was only slightly more than their standard hardtop from a GW dealer. Anyway if I were looking I might try WMW maybe now that the boat is so old they can sell you direct. If you are not hung up on the factory look check around locally for for a fabricator and have one built. With shipping included even with a used top the local option might be less expensive. A local guy might also be able to adapt a used hardtop from another brand to fit your boat. I don't know the exact years but I think the Sailfish/Kingfish cabins were the same from at least your year (or when ever that model came out, I have seen an '81 IIRC) until maybe 1990 when they went to the newer version with the extra step up to the helm area. Check the catalogs on the GW site for that, I'm sure GW would answer your fitment question too. There have been threads and posts here and other sites about boat salvage yards and that may be a source for a used top. I think the big question is how much do you want to spend on upgrades to this boat. My boat is an '83 and I don't feel bad about putting money, within reason, into it. That's a very individual decision though.
My radar arch bolted right on through the sides of the helm area and has been fine with no extra reinforcement, It is still solid today after over twenty years of use.
At any rate I looked into a hardtop years ago for my '83 Kingfish. In the end I went with a radar arch but I found these guys http://www.wmwmarine.com/accessories.php. This would be for a new top and you mentioned used. I'm not sure how clean and sound a 25 year old used hardtop might be. At the time and perhaps even today they were the OEM supplier for Grady. Back then,1989, they would only supply hardtops for a GW through a GW dealer, they could not sell direct. At that time they had the standard hardtop that GW used and a heavy duty version. The HD version looked very nice. IIRC the heavy duty version for a similar 25' of another make, that they would sell direct, was only slightly more than their standard hardtop from a GW dealer. Anyway if I were looking I might try WMW maybe now that the boat is so old they can sell you direct. If you are not hung up on the factory look check around locally for for a fabricator and have one built. With shipping included even with a used top the local option might be less expensive. A local guy might also be able to adapt a used hardtop from another brand to fit your boat. I don't know the exact years but I think the Sailfish/Kingfish cabins were the same from at least your year (or when ever that model came out, I have seen an '81 IIRC) until maybe 1990 when they went to the newer version with the extra step up to the helm area. Check the catalogs on the GW site for that, I'm sure GW would answer your fitment question too. There have been threads and posts here and other sites about boat salvage yards and that may be a source for a used top. I think the big question is how much do you want to spend on upgrades to this boat. My boat is an '83 and I don't feel bad about putting money, within reason, into it. That's a very individual decision though.
My radar arch bolted right on through the sides of the helm area and has been fine with no extra reinforcement, It is still solid today after over twenty years of use.
I am wrong with the numbers, should be 252. The boat I'm looking at is in need of work, transom, re-power, cosmetics etc. If I buy it right I don't mind a project that would take a couple of years. I will contact Grady for the specifics on fit. I also will check the website you mentioned, maybe I could get a ballpark number from them to see if it is worth it. Thanks again .
I have an Atlantic Towers Hardtop on my 1986 Sailfish. It was put on about 8 years ago. http://www.atlantictowers.com
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Hey UpGrady, nice boat. I also would be interested in what you have for power because I had my eye on a sailfish with twin four cylinder I/O's was wondering if it was enough power. I also like the top, looks good. How was the install and fit on the top?
What make and HP four cylinder motors does it have? My boat originally had twin Mercruiser 470 I/Os, 170HP fours. At the time Merc also had a 488 version of the same motor. I thought mine went well, I would cruise at 3300/3400 RPM and that would yield around 22 to 24 knots depending on load. Topped out around 36 knots and fuel economy was good. I repowered about five years ago.
The boat is an 87 with twin 180 mercruisers according to the add. According to the add they need freshening up, you know what that means. In your opinion do you think thats enough power? How about reliability of a mercruiser? I have always owned outboards and have heard plenty of horror stories about outdrives.
I got 23 years out of my Mercruiser 470 engines and drives, I don't think that is too bad. My boat is in the water over five months a year. They were not the big issue that I/Os are made out to be. I was happy with the performance of twin 170 HP motors. Although they were still running well they were 23 seasons old and needed a few things. I decided to go the repower route rather than put more money into a dated package. The 470/488 were good motors but did have a few quirks. I wouldn't want to take the care of a 25 year old motor at this point. Personally any boat of that age that I was taking on as a project I would be figuring as a repower I/O, outboard, or whatever. The issue I ran into with the repower is I had twins and the only four Merc. makes now is 135 HP (or at least that was the case when I repowered) and I did not think that would be enough. I looked into a bracket with twin OB conversion and into twin six cylinder I/Os. The OB/bracket was cost prohibitive and the twin six Merc I/Os were too wide to fit my boat without alterations to my motor box and deck. I ended up going with an 8.1 L Bravo I I/O. I'm very happy with that. There are a couple of guys here that have repowered similar boats with other Mercruiser engine packages and can give you some ideas perhaps. What are the ballpark going prices of the boats you are looking at?
Hello to all! My 1987 254 Sailfish is outfitted with a hardtop manufactured by WMW Marine in Winterville, NC. I am thinking that this hardtop was possibly a factory option or may have been installed early on by the first owner. My boat was originally from New York City but retired to Florida. If I was going to repower my boat which has the 300 horsepower Mercruiser 350 MPI Horizon it would be with the big block 496 like Jeff has in his boat. No substitute for cubic inches! 8)
Ken
Ken
Hey guys, Still original power Twin 470's circa 1986... probably have in the neighborhood of 3000 hours per engine, most of which is trolling hours at 800-1000 rpm on Lake Ontario. I have a pair of stainless props, cruise at 3400-3500 rpm and about 24-25 knots, I believe top rpm is about 4400 and would be pushing 35 knots, but these engines have been babied pretty well. At cruise I'm pushing 6.5-7 gph per engine. I've encountered the typical 470 quirks, but nothing special. That being said, I will be faced with the repower questions anytime and due to cost I will probably drop in rebuilt 470 blocks rather than a big block V8, though it would be very nice, I just cannot stomach the cost to reconfigure and repower.
As far as the hardtop, the install is not that bad, with two people it can be completed in a weekend.
As far as the hardtop, the install is not that bad, with two people it can be completed in a weekend.
You bet Upgrady! I agree with you. The most practical aproach for you would be to reinstall the 470's. The inboard outboards respond well to being babied as you and Jeff have both proved very well! Having your boat in fresh water exclusively is a big plus. All of my saltwater trips are followed by a trip to the lake for a running flush the next day. 8)
Ken
Ken
I thought about rebuilt motors when I repowered but I felt I really wanted new front to back. If mine had been a freshwater boat that would be a whole different situation for me. I was worried about the intermediates and 23 year old drives,well maintained drives but still 23 years old. The engines ran well but there were a few areas needing attention and all of it times two. It was time. UPGrady's new motors (when and if he needs them) will probably do nicely. My engine sees a freshwater flush when it comes out of the water at the end of the season.
One boat I have been watching is an 87 sailfish with the twin merc I/O's his asking price is 7000.00 no trailer. I wouldn't go that high on that one. Another is an 82 sailfish no hardtop twin 175 Johnsons which I think are original to the boat and a beat up trailer, asking 3500.00. Some of you mentioned quirks with the 470 merc's, what are they?
A quick list of 470 quirks as I recall them. Engines have a magneto instead of an alternator, in time the magnets will fall off the inside of the magneto and require replacing the magneto. I replaced both with new magnetos. There are coversion kits to convert the engines to an alternator. Early engines had 3" heat exchangers they later went to 4" exchangers due to some cooling problems. Mine were 1983 and had the 4" exchangers. The votage regulators were raw water cooled and the water went throught the regulator before the heat exchanger. Because of the magneto set up (IMO) the engines required a good battery or an odd problem would pop up. They voltage regualor would go nuts and preheat the water on the way to the exchanger and the motor would overheat. I had this happen a few times and finally developed a theory as to the cause. The next time it happened I swapped batteries from one engine to the other and the engine that had the problem ran fine and the other overheated. The battery in question had never shown any issue. I replaced it and all was well. The 470/488 had a switch that would cut the ignition when you shifted in and out of gear to relieve torque so the motor would shift. This setup seemed to need attention on a regular basis. There were a few boats powered by twin 470/488 and a couple of the owners tried stainless props and they had drive problems that they attributed to the heavy props. They went back to aluminum props, but I see that UpGrady runs stainless with no issue. The boats that had the problem were pre '83 and I know there were some changes in my drives over earlier versions. I never ran stainless on mine, I also never had any drive problems or failures under way - just regular maintenance was all I did. Did replace the boots a few times on each drive. I have read that some motors had leaks around the head gasket in the area of the #4 cylinder IIRC, I never had that issue.
This is I'm sure not a complete list of 470 quirks but the above are the things I needed to attend to. Keep in mind the motors were 23 years old when replaced and I ran them 19 of those years. Nothing too vexing but if you do aquire one or two of these you need to learn them or find a tech that knows them. Paying for a tech to get up to speed on these would be cost prohibitive I feel. If you do a search here I know there has been discussion previously. I am older now and as I mentioned above would be unwilling to take on the care of a motor of that era. That said in their day the 470/488 were a nice motor that ran well and was very economical particularly when compared to the OB powered boats of that era. I enjoyed mine and did get to know then pretty well.
This is I'm sure not a complete list of 470 quirks but the above are the things I needed to attend to. Keep in mind the motors were 23 years old when replaced and I ran them 19 of those years. Nothing too vexing but if you do aquire one or two of these you need to learn them or find a tech that knows them. Paying for a tech to get up to speed on these would be cost prohibitive I feel. If you do a search here I know there has been discussion previously. I am older now and as I mentioned above would be unwilling to take on the care of a motor of that era. That said in their day the 470/488 were a nice motor that ran well and was very economical particularly when compared to the OB powered boats of that era. I enjoyed mine and did get to know then pretty well.
Think you got most of the 470 quirks covered... only addition to the closed cooling system would be the front seals which are a bear to deal with but at least the cooolant weep hole gives you the clue that the first seal has failed and service is needed. The shift interrupt switches are a less than favorable design but I believe that they are a function of the Alpha drive design and not unique to the 470 only. My drives have been great, service them regularly and they last. If you were pushing this boat with a single 260 with an Alpha drive then there are problems as the drive is not robust enough to handle the weight of this boat, but twin alpha drives can more than handle this boat.
Gradywhiteman, honestly at the prices on both of those boats, something is wrong, they are priced way below value, so be suspicious!
Gradywhiteman, honestly at the prices on both of those boats, something is wrong, they are priced way below value, so be suspicious!
I would figure to repower either boat, my biggest concern would be structural integrity. I just did my transom this spring on my 22' Tournament. That boat is an 1982. The job went well and worked fine all season. I would figure on a year or two to disassemble the boat and put it back together. I like the older Gradys so if I can get a decent hull and maybe do another transom, re-wire the boat, etc. I can do the work myself so hopefully my biggest expense would be the motors. It sounds like the mercruisers would be worth re-building from the posts I have read. Any advice or opinions are welcomed.
If you purchased one of the 25s you might look into the small (135HP) Mercruiser fours. I was unsure as to if it was enough power but someone did have some posts here in regard to their repower project using these motors. IIRC he was very pleased with the performance. He used a four blade prop like the Bertram guys do. These motors seem to be very popular with them, as a matter of fact my accross the street neighbor has them in his 26' Bertram. Just a suggestion as I don't think they are too expensive and you would be getting all new and not dealing with rebuilt. I would think as they are straight fours they would work on the same centers as the 470s. I'm not sure if parts for the 470/488 are becoming a problem or not. UpGrady would have some insight on that as he still runs the 470s. At one point I was told there were some inland yards that sort of specialized in the 470 as single installations were very popular at the time in small runabouts.
Edit - Gradywhiteman check out this thread you might find it helpful viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15349&p=109607&hilit=mercruiser+470#p109607
Edit - Gradywhiteman check out this thread you might find it helpful viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15349&p=109607&hilit=mercruiser+470#p109607