Busted for riding on the bow

[G8RDave]

Cushions on the cabin roof deck don't count as seats. The are intended for sunning when the vessel is at anchor. It doesn't matter how tall the rails are. It is permitted to sit in the front of a bow rider with seats even if the vessel has no rails.
I am not familiar with Florida regs but the Coast Guard regs are federal and apply everywhere. Enforcement can depend on who the enforcer is. What we often see is a big push to enforce rules right after some tragedy.
It amazes me how many boaters aren't familiar with the rules in general.

With all due respect, you are wrong on two counts. First and foremost, in general the Coast Guard regulations do not apply in state water unless adopted by the state. A perfect example is life jacket requirements. In Florida water, you are not required to wear one if you are over 6 years old. In Federal water the age is 13. The second count is whether the height of the bow rail is relevant. There is no state law that specifically addresses "bow riding." Any infraction of that type would fall under "Reckless operation." In order to be in violation the officer must make the determination that the operation scenario is "likely to endanger" the passenger. With the bow rail above the "seats", or sun pad as you contend they are, the passenger is much less likely to be thrown over board, which is the only safety difference between being on the front on a boat versus the stern of a boat. And just as an aside, I have confirmed this in person with my local FWC officers and the Coasties stationed two blocks from me.

 

[seasick]

Cushions on the cabin roof deck don't count as seats. The are intended for sunning when the vessel is at anchor. It doesn't matter how tall the rails are. It is permitted to sit in the front of a bow rider with seats even if the vessel has no rails.
I am not familiar with Florida regs but the Coast Guard regs are federal and apply everywhere. Enforcement can depend on who the enforcer is. What we often see is a big push to enforce rules right after some tragedy.
It amazes me how many boaters aren't familiar with the rules in general.

With all due respect, you are wrong on two counts. First and foremost, in general the Coast Guard regulations do not apply in state water unless adopted by the state. A perfect example is life jacket requirements. In Florida water, you are not required to wear one if you are over 6 years old. In Federal water the age is 13. The second count is whether the height of the bow rail is relevant. There is no state law that specifically addresses "bow riding." Any infraction of that type would fall under "Reckless operation." In order to be in violation the officer must make the determination that the operation scenario is "likely to endanger" the passenger. With the bow rail above the "seats", or sun pad as you contend they are, the passenger is much less likely to be thrown over board, which is the only safety difference between being on the front on a boat versus the stern of a boat. And just as an aside, I have confirmed this in person with my local FWC officers and the Coasties stationed two blocks from me.

GR8Dave,
Noted and feedbacck appreciated. After I posted my reply I hag a nagging feeling about the Coast Guard statement. I began to wonder when and where the CG regs apply since federal rules may only apply to federal waters. Thanks for your input.

To be honest, I expected the first comments to be from jet skiers
Enjoy,
Seasick

 

[G8RDave]

Sorry about bringing this thread back from the dead, but Florida recently changed its laws regarding where people can sit/stand while the boat is underway. Passengers can now do just about anything they want (including bow riding, standing on gunnels, standing on the hardtop, etc) just so long as no one OUTSIDE of the boat is put in danger by their actions. Crazy.

 

[girt]

I actually called two Wildlife officers is NC about this last year. One told me he didn't know which beats my mind and the other said it was OK after seeing pictures of the vessel. it was a 265 and has a cushion and rails.

 

[Harpoon]

It doesn't sound like you got a ticket. If you did- you should go to court.

Bow riding is a sensible law intended to prevent passengers from being in harms way, sitting up on a front deck while under way or on the gunnel can ad has resulted in fatalities. I enforce it pretty strictly on boats that I operate. However your boat is equipped with a recessed deck and seating and railing- somewhat like a bow rider or center console AND you were operating at headway speed.

We had a guy like this in my area that was major tool and would write you up for anything he could imagine, and he always lost in the courtroom. Usually got thrown out before trial... he wrote my buddy up for not having an orr in a 23' CC. funny stuff.

 

[HMBJack]

Kinda makes all walk arounds illegal. And what about sitting in the bow seats of any center console?

Getting a ticket for this makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[Lt.Mike]

wow- I have had 3 GW Walk Arounds over the last 30 years in Massachusetts and have never been stopped for crew sitting in seats at the bow. Somebody must have had a bad day

In NJ I'll bet every other boat is a walkaround cuddly, the vast percentage being Grady's.
We've had passengers riding up front all the time. Slow and moderate cruise speeds. Passing the state police marine bureau station and patrol boats as we do smiling, waving and getting both in return.
So does everyone else. This has never been an issue. Of course younger kids wear life jackets regardless of where they sit while under way.
The marine cop having a bad day was my first thought too or it was just an excuse for a rookie or a hunch that alcohol was suspected. (Not suggesting you'd do that).
Mike
Ps- a check of the Grady's manual denotes the "bow" seat as part of the 8 passenger seating positions.
I believe it is poor interpretation of the law probititing from sitting on the flat deck of of cabin boat like a Welcraft steplift cuddy, which makes sense, to including one that has a seat and foot well.
Common sense would dictate that running flat out or in poor sea conditions these seats shouldn't be used.
Before picking up speed or running an inlet I have those in the front move to the back.

 

[freddy063]

Did they have a guy sitting on the bow with a 240B pointing at you? How can they do the same thing???

 

[moklodge]

We had to clarify this in our area too. The "bow" of the boat is defined as:

"The exterior of the forward end of a vessel, especially one in which the hull slopes back on both sides of the stem."

So "Bow Riding" would be defined as riding on the forward END of the vessel, presumably with ones legs dangling in front of the bow and through the rail.

Once this was clarified, the harbormaster backed off since there were numerous safety features in place for those riding in the forward part of the boat to be safe unless the Captain felt otherwise. These features included handholds, the recessed walkaround and the bow rail.

 

[Bumpye]

I know this an old post but I often wondered about this. My Gulfstream "walkaround" has the seats on the forward cabin that I have allowed my grandchildren to sit on only when accompanied by their father. It was interesting to hear from Daman858 and "the other side". You sir have a thankless job that is vital and necessary on the water. Thank you. As any one can attest, interpretation of the law is sometimes fuzzy. As I said, I only allow my grandchildren up front, with their father, and only in the no wake zone. Once underway, everyone in the back or cabin. I have passed Harbor Patrol with no issues many times. I'm sure they make a judgement call on whether to stop or not based on the occupants and overall operation of their vessel.

 

[Mwills98]

Sorry about bringing this thread back from the dead, but Florida recently changed its laws regarding where people can sit/stand while the boat is underway. Passengers can now do just about anything they want (including bow riding, standing on gunnels, standing on the hardtop, etc) just so long as no one OUTSIDE of the boat is put in danger by their actions. Crazy.

Sounds fantastic to me, get the government the hell out of my business. Survival of the fittest.

 

[1st grady]

Last summer, August, grandaughter, 8 years old, and her mother were on the cushions on top of the cabin on the 268 and we were warned by the NJ State Police to move off the bow. We were in a no wake zone, about 10 mph at the time. No ticket issued. I can totally understand if we were moving 20-25. I would assume they know the laws.