Groco Sanitation Issue

[dtsherry]

I have a '95 sailfish.
I know the issues regarding the groco macerator and modifications have been well documented here.
My pump finally failed for good and rather than spending the $500 to replace or deal with the trouble of the modifications I figured I would just do pump outs. My marina can pump out for $10 and down the canal there is a pump for for a whole dollar. That's a lot of pump outs before getting to the cost of the pump. Anyway I went to three different pump outs who all said nothing was coming out before I went down under the mid berth to look at the tank. Of course the green, yellow and red lights were all on at the level indicator. Pulled the pump looked in the tank and uh oh.. its totally empty. Now I've never looked into the tank before and seen anything in it but the pump was always working. At least it sounded like it was (using it only 3 miles out of course).
So now I'm dumbfounded. My wife, daughter and other females are on the boat all the time and that head gets used... Paper and all.. Please someone help me to determine where is it going? The bilge is dry and doesn't smell. In fact the head is relatively odor free. Is it possible there is overboard discharge from the pumping of the head? The plumbing looks like the only place anything from the head could go is the holding tank and yet the tank is empty and the pump is definitely not working. It is very odd. Both forward seacocks are open as far as I can tell. Does the seacock need to be closed to implement the tank? Gravitywise that would not make sense.

Recently I did notice that when I pour water into the floor drain of the bathroom after a while I hear a pump go on and water gets discharged overboard. This is NOT the forward bilge pump. I have no idea where this pump is or what activates it. Perhaps it is some kind of sump pump but I do not know how to get access to it or what or where it is. I doubt this could be dumping waste (especially with solid material in it) though I am wondering.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[ocnslr]

Can't help you on where the discharge from the head might be going.

Can confirm that there should not be any direct head discharge overboard unless it was done by a previous owner. Head discharges to holding tank, then can be pumped out with the built-in macerator or sucked out at a pump out station.

The water going down the deck drain in the head area goes to a small sump with a float switch and pump. It goes out above the waterline and does not have a seacock on the discharge.

Brian

 

[ROBERTH]

If both seacocks are open, when you run at a good speed, the vacuum forms at the thru hull and pulls the waste out automatically. I found this out when well offshore late last year and before running in tried to pump out and that is when I found pump was froze up. By time I got back to dock, I checked it once more and the tank was completely empty!
That way, it does not cost anything. Just run 3 miles offshore, open the valves and run for a bit and it should be empty. That is my guess how yours is also empty.

Every now and then, I tap the top of the macerator with a deadblow hammer and she fires right back up.

 

[Legend]

I have found the same as Roberth stated - I was getting odors from the tank even though I was using a deoderant - what was happening was the same as mentioned above - at high speed it would get drained and then when you used it at the dock the tank was empty with no deoderizer - also I believe it is ilegal not to have your through hull secured in Cape Cod Bay

 

[dtsherry]

Can't help you on where the discharge from the head might be going.

Can confirm that there should not be any direct head discharge overboard unless it was done by a previous owner. Head discharges to holding tank, then can be pumped out with the built-in macerator or sucked out at a pump out station.

The water going down the deck drain in the head area goes to a small sump with a float switch and pump. It goes out above the waterline and does not have a seacock on the discharge.

Brian

Any idea which thru hull the sump pump goes to? I have a feeling its disconnected and just pouring into the bilge. Is the one right next to the forward bilge outlet? That is my suspicion. Thank you in advance.

 

[dtsherry]

If both seacocks are open, when you run at a good speed, the vacuum forms at the thru hull and pulls the waste out automatically. I found this out when well offshore late last year and before running in tried to pump out and that is when I found pump was froze up. By time I got back to dock, I checked it once more and the tank was completely empty!
That way, it does not cost anything. Just run 3 miles offshore, open the valves and run for a bit and it should be empty. That is my guess how yours is also empty.

Every now and then, I tap the top of the macerator with a deadblow hammer and she fires right back up.

That is amazing. If running at a good speed creates enough suction the empty the tank then what's the point of the pump? Either way you have to be 3 miles out. Do you think it creates enough suction to remove paper (only marine head paper of course) because my tank was pretty dry and I really dont want to have to replace that pump.

 

[ROBERTH]

No idea about the paper but if you've ever noticed it seems to disintegrate pretty easily in normal situations.

 

[Legend]

That is amazing. If running at a good speed creates enough suction the empty the tank then what's the point of the pump? Either way you have to be 3 miles out. Do you think it creates enough suction to remove paper (only marine head paper of course) because my tank was pretty dry and I really dont want to have to replace that pump.1995 Sailfish 272 with twin Johnson 200 ocean runners.dtsherry

Good question - I think the answer would depend on whether waste is maceratorated as it enters the holding tank or when it exits the holding tank and I do not know the answer

 

[family affair]

Where is your discharge thru Hull located? I believe the location of our Voyager would have the opposite result. Can anyone with a Voyager confirm if a vacuum also is the result of what has been stated?

 

[ROBERTH]

Just so you know, for my hull, the discharge is directly under the access hatch in floor in cabin just in front of the door to head. The thru hull is sitting on top of the 2X4 board in which the keel is resting on the trailer. So when the hull is running forward, the water rushing past the bottom of the hull will create a vacuum/suction of sorts at speed since it is directly parallel with running surface.

 

[dtsherry]

Just so you know, for my hull, the discharge is directly under the access hatch in floor in cabin just in front of the door to head. The thru hull is sitting on top of the 2X4 board in which the keel is resting on the trailer. So when the hull is running forward, the water rushing past the bottom of the hull will create a vacuum/suction of sorts at speed since it is directly parallel with running surface.

In my case there are two seacocks (one for in/one for out) in that location under the access panel just behind the float switch and forward bilge pump.

 

[ROBERTH]

Yes, same place for me. You explained it better! :mrgreen:

 

[onoahimahi]

I tried this "auto drain feature" with my 94 Sailfish over the weekend and it didn't work for me. I opened both sea-cocks and checked after about 2 hours of running at a verity of speeds and the level didn't seem to have changed. My macerator pump still works but that shouldn't be a factor. Perhaps there is a certain speed that is required to generate the effect.

 

[dtsherry]

I too had some question as to whether my empty holding tank (with broken macerator pump) was due to and open seacock and some speed/hull generated suction. I decided to take the time to open the starboard panel in the mid-berth and discovered - to my horror - that the waste hose going to the holding tank had separated from the vented loop. Yes the vicinity was coated with partially dissolved marine toilet paper. I can only presume whatever other liquid and dissolved outflow had since gone into the bilge and removed courtesy of the floatswitch and bilge pump. Fortunately the head had only sparingly used. Upon reconnection and a few pumps of raw water my holding tank level indicated quickly showed the 1/2 full yellow light.

While I was in this relatively small compartment which seems to house a good deal of wiring from the helm I also noticed a clear plastic tank. Can anyone confirm if this is the freshwater tank? It appears to be the freshwater tank based on its location. Can anyone confirm how the freshwater pump intake hose connects to the tank? I found what appears to be a hard plastic piece which seems to inject into a small hole at the bottom side of the tank. I presume this feeds to the pump behind the midberth. However I am not sure.

 

[ROBERTH]

I was running in from offshore for over an hour, so likely as the hull is raising/lowering in the seas, it might have been acting as a pump and pulling out the waste that way. I was running approx. 30 to 35mph on that day in 2-3' seas.