Fuel Tank Discovery (20' Dolphin'77)

jim scrivens

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Off topic question

Hey Awnuld,

I've got a 20' 77 Dolphin as well. It needs repowering and I'm not sure if it needs a 20 or 25" leg (it's in Maine and I'm in NH for the week). The marina needs to know what length in order to give me a price quote, do you happen to know the length of yours? Thanks.
Jimscriv@comcast.net
 

awnuld

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Jim,

I'm pretty new to this whole boat thing, and am not familiar with all the terms, I first had to look up the term 'leg'- on a motor no less.

I won't be home til after 5pm EST, but can measure it then.

I have a 1984 Johnson 150 HP on mine currently.

BTW, what would the measuring points be for that?

If I had to guess would it be from just below the upper unit (cover) to where the lower unit is attached or all the way to the tip of the lower unit?

I found this on a website that fits canvass covers:

Alternatively measure the distance from the top of the engine cowl
(?) to the base of the fin(?).
 

BobP

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The method advised on the link is very similar.

Plastic however is harder and slippery. When the advise not to use rubber is given, the reason is correct, however, when you seal it fully against the tank, it is waterproof, no water, no interaction, no adverse effect.
When Grady uses neoprene, no full face sealant was used, hence galvanic damage is found in these areas specific. On my tank, no sealant at all was on the bottom.

Just what materials are readily avialable to non-professionals and in such small quantities needed, limits DIYers or has them overpay with more materials that would cover 20 tank jobs. This is a reality of material selection for DIYers. Also, I use Boatlife Lifseal in this application because I found it to be a very good and a pliant adhesive, above or below waterline so it can stay in water all the time, just in case and not fail, sets right away and cures overnight.

I've used Lifeseal on a few cars already to reseal and adhere existing or replacement headlamp lenses to the reflectors, tail light lenses, etc. The cheap original sealant dryed out, cracked and failed, never going to see that with lifeseal.

Plenty of other choices in marine sealants to use instead.

Whatever the tank fabricator supplies, use it. He has access we don't always have.

If anyone is reading this, whatever material you use and want to make a waterpoof seal to tank, just put a heavy bead on strip, use finger to fully wipe it all over, place on upside down tank, lay a 2 x 4 to weight it for setting. Some tanks have to be slid into place, like mine, so the strips need to be set so it doesn't get displaced while sliding into final position, not to mention the vertical strips on the front wall of the tank against the bulkhead. I would not use wedges up front to avoid crushing the tank should you hit a wave hard or hard dock at marina (by accident), especially with slippery plastic strips between tank and hull.
 

awnuld

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My new gas tank is enroute and I had some questions...

bobP you said.

Neoprene doesn't age in the bilge. I'd use 3/16in. against the bottom, 1/2 in. against the forward face, have no problem using 2 by lumber for cross braces, just make sure you let them dry a few days in sun before cutting to fit. Don't let wood or neoprene touch tank, only via caulk like lifeseal.

For the cross braces, I'm getting some azak type material for the cross braces along the top. Per your comment above, you said to not use anything against the tank unless it is lifesealed, even if the cross braces lay across the tank? So I wouldn't want anything between that and the tank for cushion? Since I removed all the foam it leaves almost 2 inches of space all around the sides, front and back, and if I put azak in these spaces to make more snug, I shouldn't put anything between it and the tank either? in your opinion.
 

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Best method is like I said to glue some vinyl to the bottom of the azak, it is impermiable to water and provides more than enough cushion.
 

BobP

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I'm not familiar with azak with respect to it's structural properties nor what will adhere to it, so can't offer you anything on it's use.
 

awnuld

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Whaler:
I think you're talking about on the azak you adhered to the bottom of the tank, did you use anything between the side wedges and the tank, and under the cross braces (between the braces and the tank)?

BobP:
I understand azak to be be a brand of synthetic (pvc) deckboard. It's hard, water resistant etc.

Just wondering if I used that or even wood for the cross bracing, would I need to add something in between since it most likely will make contact with the top of the tank.
 

BobP

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What did your tank fabricator recommend contacting the tank, something elastomeric like rubber or harder like starboard or plastic ? How did he recommend to brace the front and sides ?

I use wood because it's a structural material, and has a structural role in my tanks installation.

Since wood is not elastomeric, I used strips of neoprene. And sealed them, completely to the tank on any contact points to avoid galvanic corrosion damage specific to neoprene. My original 15 yr old tanks were reinstalled after inspection in the way I described here.
 

awnuld

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Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here, since I haven't received the tank and materials.

I asked the fabricator rep. and he said he'd provide the neoprene strips and instructed me how to adhere them etc. It sounded like the strips were not even an inch thick. That was before I saw that there would be space on all sides of the tank where foam used to be. He said I should put foam only at the corners, so that would solve that problem. But if I were to go w/o foam, just weighing the other options.

I picked up some Interprotect epoxy, I was going to line the drain holes I made and the to wood bulkheads at either end. should I line all fiberglassed areas while I'm at it?
 

BobP

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On the sides, if you don't use foam, you can make wedges.
Get better grade 2 x 4s, you cut wedges at say a 30 deg angle.
Lay the 2 x 4 down flay and mark a 30 deg angle starting at one corner.
Use circular saw. The width of the wedge is the 2 by dimension when done. The angled (cut) side faces the tank.

Make it long enough to extend above the top of tank, get a strip of neoprene stapled to it, at points above and below tank contact point, then use sealant against tank surface as well as under the neoprene against the wood as an adhesive. You toe drill a screw thru the wedge into the stringer to secure it. Beforehand, just get the wedge snug on opposing sides, don't hammer it in there. Make sure the tank is fully landed forward against bulkhead (not cocked) when you start.

I don't recall the exact cut angle I used, you may have to experiment with the angle if 30 deg is too shallow or deep.
2 x 4s are cheap.
I guess you can also make flat pads for one side and use wedges on the other, as long as everthing is dimensionally uniform. That would not have worked in my case.

Once again, let the wood dry out in the sun so it doesn't shrink later and crack about the screw hole. I'd say on the sides use a wedge every foot to 16 inches and off the corners. At the rear use twice as many, and don't use them forward. Just thicker neoprene strips, can lifeseal several together to get 1/2 inch if you don't have thicker material. Put one at each corner and several along the way, pre set to the tank face. The rear wedges will force the tank snug up front.

I basically did what grady did at the factory with a few exceptions, the most important was to full face seal the neoprene every place it contacts the tank. On the cross braces I modified how Grady did the floor supports since the 2 x 4 was twisting from how they did it.

My tank compartment had nothing but resin, no paint.
 

awnuld

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Okay, so I'm returning the epoxy and will pick up some resin. I have too much anyway I only need it for the holes that I put in for drainage.

Question about the support braces.. they just lie across the tank and wedged in right. Is there consideration for the contact that will be on the tank there.


I got my tank yesterday, but will not be able to get to it for a couple days.
 

BobP

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I think I answerd you, read again, unless you are looking for another opinion.

Which is ok too.
 

awnuld

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Update..

I hope to be done installing my new tank this week and in the water again this weekend.

I unwrapped the tank and it looked pretty good with a couple exceptions.

1. There was no ground at the end where the sender goes, (it was in my drawings and the old tank had one at both end) it's at the the front end. Is this typical and am I supposed to just run a wire to the front location.
(why/how is a tank to be grounded? the original ground wire on old sender had been disconnected)
2. I have only one baffle in the the center of the tank, not two like my old tank. I didn't mention baffles in my drawing.
3. The tank was epoxy coated, and a couple spots had already rubbed off exposing some of the aluminum.

I life sealed the neoprene I got to the bottom of the tank and will be cutting/installing wedges (and tank) in the next couple days.
 

awnuld

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I took my boat out for the first time yesterday after installing the new gas tank.


The engine kept conking out when trying to accelerate and wouldn't stay idle when taking out of neutral.

Unfortunately I had already gotten out to the bay, and I required an expensive tow. The captain of the tow boat, mentioned that sometimes water in the separator can give you trouble.

I didn't even think about the water separator when re-connecting all the new hoses, I have a racor with a plastic bowl under it. And is difficult to see if/when full.

When I got back home I was able to empty 8oz of liquid from the separator. If water is heavier than gas, then I'm thinking I had about 6oz of water with some fuel floating on top.

Do I understand right that the water separator, filters out the water and when full (?) it protects the engine by slowing the fuel flow?

Now my wife never wants to go out again, and probably will want me to sell this old boat.
 

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With the clear bowls you will see the water or ethanol/water sludge on the bottom. Did you empty the filter into a cup to see what was inside? I can see where it would be tough to tell if you have water in the fuel when you don't have a baseline to go by. The water separator will collect the water on the bottom but when it's full, it goes to the engine. If you never changed the filter change it.
 

awnuld

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The small bowl is amber in color and it's difficult to see what's going on. I emptied it last night and apparently it was full and now it definitely looks empty. The liquid that came out looked like fermenting beer.

I def. will replace the filter now, assuming it hasn't been done in a long time.

You think this was the problem with the engine performance? I'm hoping it was something this simple.

What should I replace it with? I see racor has the twist on type with a clear blue bowl or metal bowl. And what micron value for an outboard?
 

Grog

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awnuld said:
The small bowl is amber in color and it's difficult to see what's going on. I emptied it last night and apparently it was full and now it definitely looks empty. The liquid that came out looked like fermenting beer.

I def. will replace the filter now, assuming it hasn't been done in a long time.

You think this was the problem with the engine performance? I'm hoping it was something this simple.

What should I replace it with? I see racor has the twist on type with a clear blue bowl or metal bowl. And what micron value for an outboard?

Beer isn't good for the motor. You can use the clear plastic bottom bowl with outboards oterwise you have to use the metal one. They sell the filter by itself and it comes with gaskets for the top and the bowl. For Yamaha/Merc it's a S3213, they have an OMC one but don't know the # (both 10 micron).
 

awnuld

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Cool I'll probably get the whole unit. What's 'OMC' stand for?

Also, I need reassurance that water in separator (not emptying it) could cause the engine to shut off. Was wondering if this happened to anyone or expected?


thanks
 

awnuld

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okay, have been looking around the site and I think I found my own answer to the importance of the filter and not having water in it (if full) etc.
 

BobP

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An annual signup with Seatow will solve the wife issue, not the filters !.