Throttling up to Turn in Place

Ekea · Feb 6, 2024

263 Chase as in my signature pic

my "problem" comes when a stiff wind is coming from behind me and i need to spin in place to complete a 180 degree turn and finish heading into the wind. when there is no wind, the boat spins nice and easy and i am on my way. the issue when its windy is that as my bow comes around and i am spun about 90 degrees (wind now on my beam), the bow really starts to catch the wind and i stop spinning. i just get pushed with the wind staying at about the 90 degree point in the turn.

My question is, how high will you push the RPM when you have one engine in forward and one in reverse? I feel like giving it some gas would be the only way to overcome the wind, but I never like to use much if any throttle in tight spaces and around docks, but I don’t see how else I could complete my turn. Do you get to the point of diminishing returns with increased throttle and spin response? I don’t see it hurting the transom, but could be wrong.

Note - I know how to use a dock or piling to aid in making a turn in wind, but that’s not always an option

DennisG01 · Feb 6, 2024

You can definitely give it more throttle - stopping short of the point where your prop thrust or wake would cause others concern. But with engines mounted close together, spinning in a tight circle is hard to begin with - they're just too close together for it work as well as it would with wider boats.

You might also try reverse on one engine only along with using the wheel.

The other thing to do would be to keep them both in the same gear and quickly go forward/stbd, then rev/port, then fwd/stbd, etc. With enough practice, you may find that to be useful. Also, planning ahead and starting the turn early will help.

SkunkBoat · Feb 6, 2024

In the situation that you describe, at the 90 degree point with the bow hung against the wind..
I would cut the wheel hard over and goose both REVERSE to move the stern downwind, go neutral and then turn hard over the other way and goose fwd to straighten out into the wind

There is a point where you need to much room to get the boat to turn when going forward. Backing helps because the boat follows the motors.
Current pushes the stern because the motors are the deepest thing in the water. Wind pushes the bow because the motors are the deepest thing in the water.

I dock stern-in in a crazy current (that changes every 6 hours). the current is in line with the slip. Sometimes there is also a very strong crosswind from either direction.
I have learned to use motors to back into my slip. They are 28" on center and I have no problem twisting into a slip with the wheel straight...provided that I started on the right track.

When twisting, I leave the wheel straight thats a MUST. You cannot twist the boat with any turn in the wheel.
Its hard to get used to NOT touching the wheel.
Often I will leave one in fwd idle and use the throttle on the other in rev to play against it. Again, I'm usually using a current as part of the equation...
Sometimes yes, I goose one to get momentum to shift. Make sure the crew know what you are doing.

I take my time and if it just don't feel right, I go back around. My 26' er might have 10' to spare between docks.

drbatts · Feb 6, 2024

When docking my 305 I will need to rev the outside engine in reverse to get the boat to spin. The amount of throttle will vary depending on wind and current.

Gullchaser · Feb 6, 2024

SkunkBoat said:
In the situation that you describe, at the 90 degree point with the bow hung against the wind..
I would cut the wheel hard over and goose both REVERSE to move the stern downwind, go neutral and then turn hard over the other way and goose fwd to straighten out into the wind

There is a point where you need to much room to get the boat to turn when going forward. Backing helps because the boat follows the motors.
Current pushes the stern because the motors are the deepest thing in the water. Wind pushes the bow because the motors are the deepest thing in the water.

I dock stern-in in a crazy current (that changes every 6 hours). the current is in line with the slip. Sometimes there is also a very strong crosswind from either direction.
I have learned to use motors to back into my slip. They are 28" on center and I have no problem twisting into a slip with the wheel straight...provided that I started on the right track.

When twisting, I leave the wheel straight thats a MUST. You cannot twist the boat with any turn in the wheel.
Its hard to get used to NOT touching the wheel.
Often I will leave one in fwd idle and use the throttle on the other in rev to play against it. Again, I'm usually using a current as part of the equation...
Sometimes yes, I goose one to get momentum to shift. Make sure the crew know what you are doing.

I take my time and if it just don't feel right, I go back around. My 26' er might have 10' to spare between docks.

Skunk knows what he is doing. My 265 behaves the same.

glacierbaze · Feb 6, 2024

With equal throttle, the engine in forward will always have more thrust than the engine in reverse. Plus, the engine in reverse will be banging some of its thrust off of the transom, rather than underneath the boat, unless you remember to trim it up. Even with the setback of the bracket.

SkunkBoat · Feb 6, 2024

Oh. also....For godsake don't forget to raise your tabs

on the 265 the motors are at the hull. For me it works best with motors fully down

Ekea · Feb 7, 2024

thanks all for the input.

goosing both forward and both reverse in opposite hard-over directions is how i got myself out of the situation. it just put me a bit closer than i would have liked to some expensive boats. i am going to take some time this summer and practice maneuvers on a windy day near a day marker (uncrowded week day) and just get used to the different techniques

seasick · Feb 7, 2024

It may help to make sure that the engines are slightly tilted up. Every rigging is different but in some instances tilting up the motors will give you more thrust when in reverse since it can direct the water flow below more under the boat as opposed to washing the transom. You should also retract your trim tabs.

As has also been described, there are times when the only way to complete the u-turn is to make the turn while moving in reverse. In stead of fighting the current use it to your advantage. Just make sure that you have enough room to for the reverse motion.
One other factor to consider is the direction of the wind. When there is wind on the bow, your boat will tend to rotate on its own. You intuition may make you think that having the bow pointed into the wind is the more stable orientation but the reality often is that as the bow rotates even a little, there will be more wind pressure on one side than the other. That causes the tendency to rotate.

SkunkBoat · Feb 7, 2024

Ekea said:
thanks all for the input.

goosing both forward and both reverse in opposite hard-over directions is how i got myself out of the situation. it just put me a bit closer than i would have liked to some expensive boats. i am going to take some time this summer and practice maneuvers on a windy day near a day marker (uncrowded week day) and just get used to the different techniques

sometimes you are better off just backing all the way in/out of a tight marina, depending on wind/current. Sometimes you can "crab walk" it in reverse at an angle aginst the current. Once I got used to doing that slowly, in control, I have much calmer docking evolutions...

glacierbaze · Feb 7, 2024

You also want to take prop walk into account, as well as thrust, in tight situations, and sometimes you are better off just using one motor. If you are just backing into a turn, rather than trying to spin the boat, remember that your standard rotating prop will back to port in a tighter radius than your counter rotating engine, and counter rotation will back to starboard.
And going forward on one, standard rotation will swing your stern to starboard more so than your counter rotation would, and vice versa.

grady23 · Feb 14, 2024

Try raising the prop thats in reverse up slightly, about 15 degrees. This will allow the propwash to go under the boat instead of hitting the stern.

magicalbill · Feb 20, 2024

Ekea:
As Glacierbaze mentioned, the engine in forward will always have more thrust than the one in reverse.

The following has worked for me in tight situations, with both my 232 Gulfstream and my 300 Marlin.

As grady23 says, trim your engines up some so the prop wash points at more of a downward angle. Not so much so it causes Ventilation,(Not Cavitation-Catch that Dennis?) To execute this maneuver successfully, you have to really lay on the throttles to get the boat to spin in a windy scenario, and the engines need to be trimmed down enough so the wheels always bite water and not air.

Then Do This:

1.) Once you reach your turning point, rev the engine in reverse up to 2500-3000 RPM. Leave it there.
2.) Engage the forward engine and rev it up to the point where the boat is spinning.
3.)"Feather" the forward engine to overcome the wind hitting you broadside.. Use as much power as is needed to complete the spin while leaving the reverse engine revving.

You will turn your marina water into a washing machine on spin cycle and scare every fish away within 2 miles, but that boat will spin around. Mine always did.

SkunkBoat · Feb 20, 2024

magicalbill said:
Ekea:
As Glacierbaze mentioned, the engine in forward will always have more thrust than the one in reverse.

The following has worked for me in tight situations, with both my 232 Gulfstream and my 300 Marlin.

As grady23 says, trim your engines up some so the prop wash points at more of a downward angle. Not so much so it causes Ventilation,(Not Cavitation-Catch that Dennis?) To execute this maneuver successfully, you have to really lay on the throttles to get the boat to spin in a windy scenario, and the engines need to be trimmed down enough so the wheels always bite water and not air.

Then Do This:

1.) Once you reach your turning point, rev the engine in reverse up to 2500-3000 RPM. Leave it there.
2.) Engage the forward engine and rev it up to the point where the boat is spinning.
3.)"Feather" the forward engine to overcome the wind hitting you broadside.. Use as much power as is needed to complete the spin while leaving the reverse engine revving.

You will turn your marina water into a washing machine on spin cycle and scare every fish away within 2 miles, but that boat will spin around. Mine always did.

don't forget to straighten the motors and don't touch the wheel

SkunkBoat · Feb 20, 2024

grady23 said:
Try raising the prop thats in reverse up slightly, about 15 degrees. This will allow the propwash to go under the boat instead of hitting the stern.

I think if you are going to try to have one raised and the other not, you are setting yourself up for trouble.
I find it way better both fully down. Straight. Both props are below the boat. All thrust is working in the direction you want. your fwd prop isn't throwing water up.

Bracket boats maybe a different story...

DennisG01 · Feb 21, 2024

magicalbill said:
Not so much so it causes Ventilation,(Not Cavitation-Catch that Dennis?)

Nice! Eventually I'll get everyone converted over to the proper term!

Following up on what's been said about trimming up when in reverse... YES - absolutely for engines on a bracket. If the engines are right on the transom (like the OP's boat), it's not really an issue. I suppose in some cases it might help "a bit"... and it can't hurt to have them at least at a neutral position... but the difference is going to be slight, at best.

Andrew93 · Feb 21, 2024

The video here helped me a lot and it works great. It's easy to get sucked into the "seesaw of despair" as he describes it.

Fishtales · Feb 21, 2024

Every boat is different, especially in wind and current. I've learned to be dynamic at the helm with the throttle. I started with the engines in the straight position and use the binnacles to at different levels depending on conditions. As the video shows you can turn the engines to get quicker response, but need to be careful that you don't end up yo-yoing the binacles back and forth. The best advice is to spend a few days in different conditions coming and and out of your slip or whatever. There is no substitute for practice in the same condition over and over and then in different conditions.

magicalbill · Feb 21, 2024

SkunkBoat said:
don't forget to straighten the motors and don't touch the wheel

Absolutely correct. Start turning the wheel and it goes bad quickly.

SeaVee · Feb 22, 2024

Pretty interesting he turns the wheel a bit then leaves it. I have to back out of my lift, then spin it in a very narrow creek, maybe 35 wide. Creek faces due North, and a hard south on my stern is a bear, been in the weeds a few times

Throttling up to Turn in Place

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