'86 Sailfish repower options

[Propwash]

Hey guys, I need a little feedback on a couple of repower options. My dad and I are planning to repower our Sailfish next year. Currently the boat has a pair of well used '90 Johnson 200's. We are have pretty much agreed on a pair of 175 Suzuki 4 strokes. Although the boat is 24 years old, it is in good shape for its age and we have no plans to sell anytime soon. The reliability is worth the price of going with new motors and the expense will be split.
But, a pair 2001 HPDI 200's have come available locally. These motors have less than 300 hours on them. According to the owner, one engine has had a powerhead replaced and has approximately 50 hours on it. These motors look new inside and out and come with props and oil tanks. The asking price is $8,000.00 for the pair. Owner has them on a World Cat and is willing to provide a test ride and document all records.
From what I have read, these are great motors. Sometime in '01 there was an update on them. Not sure if these have the updates or not. The price seems right if everything ckecks out. I know the HPDI's are high tech motors and the replacement parts are expensive. We use the boat approximately 50-60 hours a year. Financally speaking, going used is the way to go. The tradeoff by going used is the chance that one or both engines develop problems. Going with new 4 strokes is not going to guarantee there will not be issues, by at least there will be a warranty. Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[jekyl]

The 200 hpdi's are a better fit for the age of the boat and resale should be easier given the difference in price. However I would really want to know what caused the powerhead failure. Because another one of those will cost big time.
I had a powerhead go on a 200hpdi with 1000 hrs on it and Yamaha USA who looked at photos of the damage diagnosed injector failure.
In retrospect I would have had all injectors either cleaned or replaced ( not cheap but worthwhile). Will you need new controls for the Yammies?

However ; given your attachment to the boat and the split costs and if your intention is to keep it for many more years. Then the Suzuki's are a great motor and once you've had 4 strokes you ain't going back..........

Alternatively at more expense consider the new 2010 Yamaha's...........

 

[BobP]

Repowering with the Suzies is about $35K, incl hopefully 6 yr warranty.

You may additionally need a new steering ram if the one you have is not compatible.

Repowering (Suzie) dealer may require new fuel lines all the way to tanks, fill lines, etc.

Existing motors if running worth $1000 per (for lower unit alone), must sell on the side, dealer will not likely take unless free.

If a powerhead blows on the HPDI, about $7K for a total NEW ONE injectors and everything included, 2-3 week layup.

Rare find on the HPDIs, they will sell quick. Why is he selling HPDIs?

Similar fuel consumption HPDIs/Suzies, bigger hole shot and top end on HPDIs, quieter idle on HPDIs.
HPDIs do idle quieter than my old 1992 Johnnie 200s.

Evaluate access to Suzie vs Yamaha dealers, just because (Suzie) motors are new doesn't mean you don't need dealer especially when things act up, and you should expect that.

If you go HPDI, have dealer do major maintenace or DIY, make sure entire oil system is cleaned out, all filters oil and gas, O2 sensor, water pumps and T stats.
Dealer can hook up to computer to see if all is OK, as well as verify hours as a pre-purchase evaluation whioch you should have done. About 100 bucks per motor.

You can DIY annual maintenance on HPDIs, no special tools needed, more work than the old motors but no big deal, you will save plenty as a DIYer.

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IMHO - for the hours you use boat, the numbers speak for themselves.
However, if you plan to keep the boat another 10 - 15 yrs, you may want to consider the Suzies as long as dealer is close by. I would not go Suzie w/o a dealer nearby, of if you can trailer boat there.

 

[Grog]

I don't know what info you will get out of 2001 motors by plugging in. You might just get past error codes or a whole bunch of info like run hours and time spent at certain throttle percentages. HPDIs are great motors and if you only use 50-60 hours a year, 500 hours is 10 years away. Will you still have the boat in 10 years? Thinking resale, you're going to loose your shirt on new motor "investments".

Going ballpark #'s, 8K for the motors and 3.5K to get them ready and rig them so $11K. New motors are going to run mid $30's by the time you're done. Dollar wise you have $18K to get a new powerhead should one go and if you can't get well past 1000 hours, something is wrong. If he only has 300 hours on '01s they weren't used that much and he probably didn't maintain them properly and crud built up in the VST tank which toasted an injector which lead to the powerhead failure. They should be checked out thououghly by a certified tech before using.

The Zukes will probably cost a little less to run and once past the first year (if something is going to fail it usually happens in the first year) will have less chance of problems. If you're OK with the extra $18K up front for 50 hours a year go for it. Are you sure the transom is solid, that can eat up a few thousand.

 

[Marty grady 272]

I have a 95 GW sailfish 272 that I repowered with 200 Yamaha HPDI motors. I could not be happier. I also found a pair with low hours, 105 on one and 0 hours on the other. My boat yord installed them for $13.000. It is the best boat/power combo that I have ever had. With the old OX 66 200 hp's I was getting 1.1 mpg. With the 200 HPDI motors at 4000 to 4200 rpm I am getting 1.8 to 1.9 mpg and with about half of the oil usage. The boat is faster at all rpms than with the old motors, quick starting and almost no smoking.

 

[dlevitt]

It sounds to me that the HPDI's will make more sense financially - assuming that they check out OK. Even if you have to throw a few bucks into them to make them perfect, it seems like a no brainer.

I would also verify that the engines are counter rotating. If they came from a CAT hull, they may both be standard rotation, which could create handling issues. Of course, I will defer this to someone who actually has a clue about motors...

 

[Local Motion]

repower or other power....

The 200 hpdi's are a better fit for the age of the boat and resale should be easier given the difference in price. However I would really want to know what caused the powerhead failure. Because another one of those will cost big time.
I had a powerhead go on a 200hpdi with 1000 hrs on it and Yamaha USA who looked at photos of the damage diagnosed injector failure.
In retrospect I would have had all injectors either cleaned or replaced ( not cheap but worthwhile). Will you need new controls for the Yammies?

However ; given your attachment to the boat and the split costs and if your intention is to keep it for many more years. Then the Suzuki's are a great motor and once you've had 4 strokes you ain't going back..........

Alternatively at more expense consider the new 2010 Yamaha's...........

Having gone both ways with repower and 'other power'/"fixed power"...I would definitely say go brand new and take the warranty.

I know the 01's are tempting but it will only work out if they run good long term. You would need a crystal ball to read what will happen, or not. If one pops (again), you lose, will have to fork over for another powerhead and will be back where you started. Then the other may pop.

Last time, I went with new motors and warranties. Good feeling first time you push the throttles on brand new power, big smile! You won't regret it.

 

[Propwash]

Thanks for the replys. Bob, you are right about these motors being a rare find. The HPDI's have been my first choice on the repower. These motors do not seem to be found on the used market. When they do come available, they are priced much higher, have many more hours on them, are usually located hundreds of miles away and sell fast. That is what makes this pair so dang attractive.
The reason these engines are available, according to the owner, is they want 4 strokes. Regardless of what power we choose, the controls, gauges and props will have to be replaced. If we were to go with new 175's with a warranty, I'm sure we would be forced to have all rigging done by the dealer, which adds to the cost. $35,000.00 seems high, but with rigging, all the necessary essentials and tax, that is probably close. LMC Marine here in Houston has the 175's as a pair(engines only) at $22,400.00. Ed's Marine is the same, plus shipping. Going used, we could do most of the rigging ourselves, then let the dealer inspect and detail the small stuff. Gonna wait a couple of weeks for the Houston Boat Show and see what deals are out there. Thanks again.

 

[Desperado]

Just wanted to give a thumbs up on the HPDIs. I currently own 3 of the 200hp models, and they have all run perfectly. If the used ones check out, while there is always a risk, I would seriously consider them.

 

[BobP]

You can do all the rigging yourself, mostly plug and play stuff, presumming motors come complete. Members here can assist, I did it myself 100%, saved $3K and enjoyed the process and working with the Yamaha machinery.

Make sure you get Yamaha mechanic motor evaluation, as far as the business about selling HPDIs to get 4 strokes; trust but verify.

Get the service records to review , last three years expected, check for water pumps being done, t stats, filters, lower unit lube, plugs, etc.