Hardtop Cracks
- Thread starter Greyduk
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What is it that is mounted there?
Most likely they are just stress cracks (cosmetic). The holes that were drilled for the bolts may not have been done quite right, allowing the side of the bolt to contact the gelcoat. As stress/vibration happens, that 'stress' is transferred to the gelcoat and it spider/stress cracks since gelacoat is actually quite brittle. Knock on the area - chances are the knocking will sound solid as the underlying glass is perfectly fine.
Yes, it can be fixed - but it's labor intensive and there's no guarantees that it won't come back. Although if done properly, it increases the chances of not coming back). You can keep them from spreading by drilling a small hole at the end of each crack (thru the gel and just barely into the glass only), then filling with tinted epoxy.
Most likely they are just stress cracks (cosmetic). The holes that were drilled for the bolts may not have been done quite right, allowing the side of the bolt to contact the gelcoat. As stress/vibration happens, that 'stress' is transferred to the gelcoat and it spider/stress cracks since gelacoat is actually quite brittle. Knock on the area - chances are the knocking will sound solid as the underlying glass is perfectly fine.
Yes, it can be fixed - but it's labor intensive and there's no guarantees that it won't come back. Although if done properly, it increases the chances of not coming back). You can keep them from spreading by drilling a small hole at the end of each crack (thru the gel and just barely into the glass only), then filling with tinted epoxy.
"What is it that is mounted there?"
That is a Taco Grand Slam outrigger mount. I just got the boat and this was one of the cosmetic issues. I have a suspicion that it got banged into something at a dock or boathouse. Just wondering if water will compromise the core? I was thinking that maybe Marine Tex or PC-7 might be a possibility. I was hoping someone might have run into this before. Thanks.
That is a Taco Grand Slam outrigger mount. I just got the boat and this was one of the cosmetic issues. I have a suspicion that it got banged into something at a dock or boathouse. Just wondering if water will compromise the core? I was thinking that maybe Marine Tex or PC-7 might be a possibility. I was hoping someone might have run into this before. Thanks.
OK, I was wondering if it was something like an outrigger - it looks pretty beefy. It's the tension/torque/leverage/whatever you want to call it, that is causing that (like mentioned above). It's not an impact directly to the hardtop (could be to the outrigger, though, of course).
Have I run into that EXACT issue you have right there on that particular hardtop? No, but I've worked on this type of thing many times. It's unlikely to affect the core (cores usually don't run right to an edge, anyways) the way it is right now. Yes, MT or PC-11 can fix it - but re-read what I wrote about the fix process. You can't just slap some epoxy over the top of it. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to remove, relieve the gel edge, coat the core edge and reseal, though.
Have I run into that EXACT issue you have right there on that particular hardtop? No, but I've worked on this type of thing many times. It's unlikely to affect the core (cores usually don't run right to an edge, anyways) the way it is right now. Yes, MT or PC-11 can fix it - but re-read what I wrote about the fix process. You can't just slap some epoxy over the top of it. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to remove, relieve the gel edge, coat the core edge and reseal, though.
The picture doesn't show the underside. Are there backer blocks(preferable metal) underneath or built into the top?
Do you see cracks underneath also?
It is possible that the cracks were the result of an impact. In that case they may be on one outrigger mount only. If you have cracks on both, it is a bit more likely that they are caused by flexing and not impact. If due to flexing, they will come back if patched. The reason for the flexing and a remedy should be determined.
If caused by impact, there may be only cosmetic damage but I don't think that is the case since there appears to be a crack on the outer edge that runs all the way down. If that crack appears on the inside/underside also, the damage is more severe.
Gel coat repair will fill the cracks if due to light stress, That fix may or may not last depending. If the cracks are structural affecting, more intensive fiberglass repair is probably needed.
Do you see cracks underneath also?
It is possible that the cracks were the result of an impact. In that case they may be on one outrigger mount only. If you have cracks on both, it is a bit more likely that they are caused by flexing and not impact. If due to flexing, they will come back if patched. The reason for the flexing and a remedy should be determined.
If caused by impact, there may be only cosmetic damage but I don't think that is the case since there appears to be a crack on the outer edge that runs all the way down. If that crack appears on the inside/underside also, the damage is more severe.
Gel coat repair will fill the cracks if due to light stress, That fix may or may not last depending. If the cracks are structural affecting, more intensive fiberglass repair is probably needed.
I don't see any cracks on the underside and they are only on the port side which caused me to suspect that the top part of the mount came in contact with an "immovable" object. In my superficial examination it seems that the damage is only cosmetic as opposed to structural. At least I hope that is the case.
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If it was mine, I would have the crack repaired. I've seen what a hardtop looks like with water intrusion and freeze/thaw over time, not pretty. Even if you're in a warmer climate, I still wouldn't want water to find its way in and compromise the core of your top.
SkunkBoat
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I'd say its stress from the outrigger. Not on a brace welded to frame? Just thru the top?
It being so close to the edge there is no support in that direction. The glass flexes.
Doesn't look unusual for 20 year old boat. You probably have a few around edges of lids too.
You can go all out, remove the rigger grind out the cracks, thin layer of glass and filler and paint a nice taped off area.
Or scour out the cracks into v-grooves and fill with Marine tx...thats my vote....
I saw somewhere where a guy used an old style can opener to score the cracks into a clean v-groove
It being so close to the edge there is no support in that direction. The glass flexes.
Doesn't look unusual for 20 year old boat. You probably have a few around edges of lids too.
You can go all out, remove the rigger grind out the cracks, thin layer of glass and filler and paint a nice taped off area.
Or scour out the cracks into v-grooves and fill with Marine tx...thats my vote....
I saw somewhere where a guy used an old style can opener to score the cracks into a clean v-groove
SkunkBoat
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SkunkBoat
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Personally, I haven't tried it for cracks. I would probably pop open a bottled beverage with the dull end and then give the pointy end a try.
Worse case, the MarineTex cracks again and you have to do the grinding and filling.
Worse case, the MarineTex cracks again and you have to do the grinding and filling.
teaklejr
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Not sure yours is the same as mine but we just had ours repaired do to water intrusion which rotted out the balsa core and made it very soft to the point that the bolts holding hardtop on were not tight anymore and noticed the back side out outriggers were compressing the top. We removed top and had the back corner sections cut out and repaired and filled in all unused extra holes with new balsa core and are now just waiting to get it painted. Turned out great and now the topside will not have rough texture that captures the dirt
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SkunkBoat
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something I notice is that teaklejr's rigger is mounted inside of the frame and greyduk's is outside. Being outside the frame is going to allow a lot more flex.
I don't have top mounted riggers but everyone I can remember on other's boats have been inside the frame.... and they had a mount plate welded into frame
I don't have top mounted riggers but everyone I can remember on other's boats have been inside the frame.... and they had a mount plate welded into frame
Fishtales
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Could be a number of things....
- There doesn't appear to be hardtop welded plates in this installation. I've done it this way myself 10 years ago. While an ok installation, it isn't as strong as one that has the plates obviously. It could have been due to stress from a rigger deployment where maybe the clip didn't pop as it should or there was some unplanned additional stress on the rigger.
- Damage as you say, maybe the owner managed to get his riggers hung up and again some force caused the damage.
- Water intrusion. If water did get in overtime and the core got wet, then the rigger basically is loose as the coring material is damaged (see pics above). You'll need to repair.
- Installer didn't use tube spacers. When I installed mine, Taco suggested the use of tube spacers (basically plastic tubes that you install in the hardtop by using a larger diameter drill bit on the mounting holes, then you run the mounting bolts through the tube spacers. This provides additional support so you don't crush the hardtop when tightening the bolts down initially as well as additional support should the hardtop become spongy or weak over time.
I'm guessing it is water. I'd take the rigger off and do some inspection. You may get away with adding tube spacers, fixing the cracking and re-sealing everything up. Make sure there are backing plates installed on the underside.
You may need to do a more extensive repair as done above. A much bigger job as you have to remove the hardtop from the boat.
- There doesn't appear to be hardtop welded plates in this installation. I've done it this way myself 10 years ago. While an ok installation, it isn't as strong as one that has the plates obviously. It could have been due to stress from a rigger deployment where maybe the clip didn't pop as it should or there was some unplanned additional stress on the rigger.
- Damage as you say, maybe the owner managed to get his riggers hung up and again some force caused the damage.
- Water intrusion. If water did get in overtime and the core got wet, then the rigger basically is loose as the coring material is damaged (see pics above). You'll need to repair.
- Installer didn't use tube spacers. When I installed mine, Taco suggested the use of tube spacers (basically plastic tubes that you install in the hardtop by using a larger diameter drill bit on the mounting holes, then you run the mounting bolts through the tube spacers. This provides additional support so you don't crush the hardtop when tightening the bolts down initially as well as additional support should the hardtop become spongy or weak over time.
I'm guessing it is water. I'd take the rigger off and do some inspection. You may get away with adding tube spacers, fixing the cracking and re-sealing everything up. Make sure there are backing plates installed on the underside.
You may need to do a more extensive repair as done above. A much bigger job as you have to remove the hardtop from the boat.
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I googled and find pics of Grady's with mounts welded outside the frame. My Seaswirl, I was way inside the frame with backing plates. My current boat, I'm on/in the gunnels.
Fishtales
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Hi,
The welded plates were options in the past, more recently they are standard in all the hard top frames (which is good). The problem was if your boat came without the plates, you had to either add them, which meant removing the top and all the wiring that runs inside the hardtop and then install the plates. The other option was to install without the welded plates and take your chances. If you go the latter, you are relying on the hardtop strength to hold everything together. You need to install the top plate (why not use the wedge plates to account for the hardtop roll off, bottom side backing plates and most important the tube spacers for additional support. Finally, you need to ensure no water intrusion.
The welded plates were options in the past, more recently they are standard in all the hard top frames (which is good). The problem was if your boat came without the plates, you had to either add them, which meant removing the top and all the wiring that runs inside the hardtop and then install the plates. The other option was to install without the welded plates and take your chances. If you go the latter, you are relying on the hardtop strength to hold everything together. You need to install the top plate (why not use the wedge plates to account for the hardtop roll off, bottom side backing plates and most important the tube spacers for additional support. Finally, you need to ensure no water intrusion.