Installing a Saltwater Washdown on a 1994 20' Adventure

Cajun Blues

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Is there anything special about installation of a saltwater washdown system?
1. Broze high speed thru hull pickup to ball valve to barb fitting to reinforced hose to strainer to pump to hose to perko hose fitting.
Am I forgetting anything?
 

CatTwentyTwo

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That sounds more complete than the factory installation on my 94 208. Grady didn't include the strainer on mine. You are probably not forgetting it, but you didn't mention anything on the electrical side like wiring, fusing and an On/Off switch.
 

richie rich

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go with a flanged seacock, not ball valve....thru hull is straight thread, ball valve is tapered..it's designed for "in-line" piping, not mating with a thruhull.....the 2 won't bottom out properly and you'll be hangin' by a "thread" literally...spend the extra 15 bucks and get the flanged bolt down system with straight threads. See Groco's web-site for information about this.
 

BobP

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Richie, the threaded bronze thru hulls work fine with the bronze ball valves, it's the standard setup been that way for many years now.

The valve takes several turns and snugs up fine, I use pope dope.

I believe he should be using 3/4 inch size.
 

richie rich

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Pope Dope? So that's what they burn in church at the Vatican.. :lol:
Just kidding Bob.

Hey, I just go with what the manufacturer says....they are the ones recommending not to do it...they list the 2 parts as being different threads, which are not compatible unless you get a special threaded through hull with a tapered end.....yeah, they get tight, but that's because its binding, not seating. The ball valve goes 4 -5 turns and binds, never actually bottoming out inside.....the flanged seacock threads all the way in and bottoms out because they are both straight thread...I tested both in the store myself before buying....you'll see galling on the thread tips when using an in-line, so what the MFG'er says makes sense.

Plus you get the benefit of bolting down the valve and threading it vs just a threaded connection.....for a few bucks more, to me it's worth it. For a 3/4 inch Conbraco valve the difference in price...$32 vs $49.....Groco is more..not sure why as both are marine bronze.
 

BobP

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I would say the manufacturer's truth makes sense in application when applied to city water pressure lines, running 100 psig or similar, like we have at home.

The sea pressure the water exerts on the assembly is only about 1/2 psig per foot of water depth (head).

As far as seating goes, I'd rather seal in the threads and not bottom out unless some kind of gasket down there.

And these fittings were not meant to be made and remade often.

I don't know what value a threaded bronze thru hull would have w/o a barb fitting otherwise. Who would buy it and connect what to the threaded end? All I can think of is a valve.
That's all that is ever recommended below the water line.
Unfortunately, since the thru hull needs a nut, has to be standard thread not tapered.
 

Cajun Blues

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I did my homework Richie, you r absolutely correct. Thanks

richie rich said:
Pope Dope? So that's what they burn in church at the Vatican.. :lol:
Just kidding Bob.

Hey, I just go with what the manufacturer says....they are the ones recommending not to do it...they list the 2 parts as being different threads, which are not compatible unless you get a special threaded through hull with a tapered end.....yeah, they get tight, but that's because its binding, not seating. The ball valve goes 4 -5 turns and binds, never actually bottoming out inside.....the flanged seacock threads all the way in and bottoms out because they are both straight thread...I tested both in the store myself before buying....you'll see galling on the thread tips when using an in-line, so what the MFG'er says makes sense.

Plus you get the benefit of bolting down the valve and threading it vs just a threaded connection.....for a few bucks more, to me it's worth it. For a 3/4 inch Conbraco valve the difference in price...$32 vs $49.....Groco is more..not sure why as both are marine bronze.
 

richie rich

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Bob,
Interesting read from Pro Boat Magazine below....sorry no pics but maybe the link will work and you can see the article...anyway, looks like the regs changed in 2008...the strength is for breakage from torqing the handle etc...not so much the pressure.
www.proboat.com/attention-to-detail-april-1-2010.html

The Standards for Seacocks

Steve D'Antonio (All)There’s a right way and a wrong way to go about any task. You really don’t want to choose the wrong way when installing a seacock. Think of it like this: The only thing standing between your customer’s safety on a seaworthy dry-bilged boat, and a disastrous 50-gal/89-l-per-minute leak through a 1″/25.4mm through-hull, is a properly installed and secure seacock.

Since each seacock is vital to a boat’s watertight integrity, by selecting the valve and its connectors and components based solely on expense, ease of installation, or because “that’s the way we’ve always done it,” you will put the boat at unnecessary risk. Indeed, if you choose the incorrect seacock materials, they will be impossible to properly install for a given application.

The guidelines set forth in the American Boat & Yacht Council’s Standards and Technical Information Reports for Small Craft, Standard, H-27, Through-Hull Fittings and Drain Plugs, revised in July 2008, make it clear that seacock installations must be robust and durable. It specifies that each penetration below the waterline should be fitted with a through-hull and a seacock valve. In this context, “below the waterline” means any fitting that is submerged when the vessel heels 7° for powerboats; and to the level of the sheer amidships on sailboats. A single exception is detailed below.

While the standard is important and a quick read, a few passages are particularly relevant and potentially tricky for builders and repair yards:

• 27.5.1 “All piping, tubing or hose lines penetrating the hull below the maximum heeled waterline, shall be equipped with a seacock to stop the admission of water in the event of failure of pipes, tubing or hose. (Exception 2) Hull penetrations that discharge above the waterline in its static floating position and below the maximum heeled waterline and meet requirements H-27.5.3.”

Therefore, some above-the-static-waterline through-hull fittings might comply while not using a valve per se.

• 27.5.3 “Hull penetrations that are not equipped with a seacock [remember, these may only be above the static waterline—D’Antonio] shall use reinforced piping or hose that resists kinking or collapse.”

If you opt to forgo the seacock on any fitting above the static waterline, the hose must be reinforced. While “reinforced” is not defined in the standard, to me it means a heavy-walled hose such as one designed for marine wet exhaust and carrying the J2006R designation. Wire-reinforced wet-exhaust hose—a common designation for durable raw-water hoses—would also meet the criteria, although I wouldn’t consider the wire a prerequisite unless the installation risked kinking. My preference is to avoid installing a through-hull fitting within less than 12″ (304 mm) of the static waterline without a seacock, power or sail—regardless of whether the region is submerged during a 7° heel or when heeled down to the sheer amidships. (The term static floating position is defined in detail in the standard, and should be well understood by those carrying out this work.)

• 27.5.4 “Seacocks shall be designed and constructed to meet ANSI/UL 1121, Marine Through-Hull Fittings and Sea-Valves.”

This does not say that just any UL rating or labeling ensures compliance. Valves can be UL listed for countless applications—fuel, LP gas, potable water, and even seawater. Only a few are designated as “sea valves.” Typically, UL-listed sea valves include a flange, although it’s not specified in the standard.

• 27.6.1 The seacock must be able to withstand “a 500 pound static force applied for 30 seconds to the inboard end the assembly, without the assembly failing to stop the ingress of water.”

This means the more hard plumbing directly attached to the seacock, the greater its vulnerability to failure during that test and in service. I recommend a pipe-to-hose adapter, straight or 90°, as the only fitting that should be directly attached to a seacock. A length of hose should separate any additional hard plumbing fittings from the seacock to isolate it from a lever-arm effect. My personal standard is: any raw-water plumbing must pass “the stand-on-it test.” Meaning, if a raw-water plumbing hose, fitting, or fixture is too fragile to be stepped upon without failing or leaking, it’s either too fragile, period; or not well enough protected.

• 27.6.1.2 “Threads used in seacock installations shall be compatible (e.g., NPT to NPT, NPS to NPS).”

This entry, which specifically prohibits the mixing of incompatible thread types, was added to the standard in 2008. While it’s inconceivable to me that any experienced boat builder or mechanic would knowingly attach plumbing components whose threads were incompatible, it’s an all-too-frequent occurrence; thus the specific prohibition.

—◊—

Hardware throughout the raw-water system should be fully compatible with exposure to seawater. Usually this means bronze (brass should never be installed, because of its zinc content); however, proprietary glass-reinforced plastics such as Marelon are also well suited to seacock and raw-water applications. Avoid PVC; its tensile strength is not high enough to rely on to keep a vessel afloat. Also, conventional 300-series stainless steel is not ideal because of its propensity for crevice corrosion.


Here is a through-hull fitting attached to an inline ball valve—two components that were never designed to be attached to each other. They do not constitute a proper seacock, and are not compliant with ABYC standards. Because the ball valve’s threads are tapered, and the through-hull’s are straight, they do not properly interface, and make a weak joint at best. Moreover, seacocks are typically flanged to provide adequate load distribution, and on FRP vessels, they often rest on encapsulated marine plywood, GPO 3, or some other suitable composite material backing block. (Never install solid wood of any species for this application.) If the seacock flange includes mounting holes, it must be through-bolted or lagged into the backing block with bronze, not stainless, fasteners.

For an in-depth look at seacock selection and installation, read “Seacocks” in Professional BoatBuilder magazine No. 114, page 82.




About the Author: For many years a full-service yard manager, Steve now works with boat builders and owners and others in the industry as “Steve D’Antonio Marine Consulting Inc.” He is a contributing editor of Professional BoatBuilder, and awaits publication (by McGraw-Hill/International Marine) of his book on marine systems.
 

seabob4

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Seacocks...ball valves...I've worked for Wellcraft, Hydra-sports (back in the OMC days), Intrepid, Stamas Yacht, and Proline. Intrepid was the only builder that used actual seacocks, the rest use standard thread mushroon head bronze t/hulls with tapered thread shut-off valves mounted directly to them...and I've never seen, or had a leak reported.

Is it the "proper" way to do it? No. Is it done on a daily basis? Yes.
 

BobP

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Sorry on the pope dope typo, need a proofwriter.
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I read the above.

Here's the secret he doesn't tell anyone:

Using the mismatched threads is perfectly ok and a no brainer to do leak free and will NEVER sink a boat.
A boat can be sunk with matching threads or non-matching threads if the work is done INCORRECTLY, and boats have sunk from improper workmanship.

No longer a secret, cat is out of bag.

As far as PVC goes, I guess he never heard of schedule 80 PVC.

And as to not breaking something stepped on, namely fittings. Well I don't have any to step on, nor do I step on my GPS, fishing rods or reels.
All can be stepped on if I want to, but I choose not to.

So I don't get it, the boat sinking issue must tend to serve another purpose than safety or property preservation.

As far as spending more than necessary to so something, I'm all for it, I do it myself.
But never will sell it to make anyone else fear something where there is nothing to be afraid of whatsoever.
 

jamespipers

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The threads are just fine for the pipes. The listed different threads above is of great help in order to determine what particular size to be used. Just take note that it is important to install saltwater wash down to any boat regardless of its model so as to prevent rusting.