My Motor Broke

[LUNDINROOF]

I have twin 250 Yamaha's on a 283 Release purchased in 2009 and put into service February of 2010.

Both motors have been working perfectly for the past two years but this past weekend the port motor lost power and died in the middle of Bay St. Louis. We tried to restart it but although it would turn over and seem to try, it just wouldn't start.

Can't be a fuel problem because both engines use the same fuel and the starboard engine runs great. I can't see how it can be an electrical problem, we tried switching between battery banks and it still would not start. No overheat warning or oil pressure alarm. it just quit.

I was fixing to take out all my tools but the wife and son convinced me to bring it to the dealer because it is still in warranty. Because Isaac flooded the dealer he cannot get it fixed before Sept. 21, if then, so I have nothing to do the next two weekends but drink scotch.

Didn't figure anyone could diagnose the problem without more information but I needed a shoulder to cry on. :bang :bang :bang :bang

Hopefully the problem will be minor and covered under warranty.

Thanks for listening.

 

[wspitler]

Most likely a fuel problem. Pump, hose, filter, primer bulb, etc. I'd just check to make sure there's only fuel, no water or sludge, in the engine mounted fuel filter. If water,the warning float should have alerted you, but I had one that didn't work. One filter could have water/clogged before the other, even with a single tank. I assume you have a water separator before the filter. Might be worth pouring that into a glass jar to check for contaminants. Of course use care due fire hazard. Everthing else is covered under warranty. I had a fuel pump go out on an F250 at about two years. Easy to diagnose with YDIS and fix under warranty. Great engines! Let us know the outcome. Good Luck!

 

[Legend]

Two possible issues

I had an engine that just stooped years ago and it was a problem the key switch?? not sure how to check it though - the dealer knew right away when I explained the symptoms

the other possibility - could it be the lanyard kill switch - I think that oone controls both so it may not be it - if there two one may have been jerked lose? worh checking

 

[bayrat]

How about putting your timing light on it and cranking to see if you have spark? (dont ground the plug wire to the block because I understand that you can cause damage that way). If no spark,check into Legend's ideas..they were good calls.

 

[pablor]

My f250 had the same symptoms and it was a lose wire going to the computer..

 

[CKJR]

i had a similar problem with my f225, it turned out to be a low pressure fuel pump. There is a fuse under the motor cover, i would see if that is blown. If it is i would replace and listen to see when the key is turned on (not started) you will hear the pump run. If the low pressure pump is bad, it will continue to blow that fuse, Good luck

 

[LUNDINROOF]

Gentlemen, thanks for your input, it gives me something to think about.

I didn't think to check the kill switch but because there is only one for both engines, and the starboard engine is running, I think I can rule that out.

I had a key switch give out on me on my Optimax a few years ago but when it did, the engine would not turn over. I thought the key switch did two things, power the engine and some other accessories, and secondly, turn the engine over. When we turn the key to on, I hear a noise from the engine like a pump running so it is being powered. The engine turns over and acts like it is firing but will not start. Its almost like a timing problem but I left my timing light in the trunk of a '58 ford when I sold it in '63. That's when I decided that I didn't have time enough for rebuilding engines and girls so I made one of those life changing decisions and sold all my good tools.

I did check the fuel filter and it appeared to be clean. I have never had ethanol gas in the tank so I thought I was safe from major fuel problems. I wish I had checked the in line water filter but didn't. This is something that would not be covered under warranty and I could do a lot cheaper than the dealer.

I hope its not a blown fuse, I had a similar problem with my Optimax and replacing the fuse would allow everything to work fine for a couple of hours and the fuse would blow again. If a fuse blows, you have a problem and replacing the fuse cures the symptoms but does not solve the problem. It took a couple of trips to the dealer to finally find the short.

These are the first Yamaha's I have owned and I have been very pleased with them. They are bullet-proof and start immediately if you even look at them hard. I think it will prove to be a loose wire or something simple, or at least I hope it is. The season usually ends around Thanksgiving for me because hunting season starts. I hope I do not loose the last month or two.

I should get a diagnosis from the dealer by the end of next week. Whoever guesses right gets a free jar of honey from my bee hive if they send me their mailing address.

Thanks again.

 

[LUNDINROOF]

I picked up the boat last week and brought it over to the coast. It ran perfectly and I put about three hours on the engines and neither missed a beat.

Final diagnosis was water in the fuel system. One of the things that made me think that this was not going to be the problem was that I looked at the fuel filter on the engine and it was clear. Seems like I didn't know that water could be clear also.

Secondly, if it was a fuel problem why didn't it happen to both engines. Who knows, but the starboard engine had no water in the line or filters and the port engine was solid water from the tank intake to the cylinders. The mechanic removed and cleaned the injectors, changed all the filters including the water separator filters on both engines. The only water he found in the starboard engine system was a little in the water separator filter on this side.

He tilted the tongue of the trailer up high and let the water settle to the rear of the tank. He then removed the fuel sender and pumped over two gallons of water from the tank until he got clear gas. Hopefully he got all of the water.

So, two questions?

First, where did the water come from? I haven't used ethanol fuel in two years. All fuel came from my marina and a few gas stations that all advertise that their gas is ethanol free? However, none of these sources are major companies like Exxon, Texaco, Shell Etc.

The mechanic checked the filler cap and the o-ring was in perfect condition. The vent is on the inside of the fuel hose so no water could enter there? I keep the tank full to eliminate condensation and the boat sits in a warehouse all winter.

Secondly, why all the water in the port engine and little/none in the starboard engine? Mechanic couldn't answer except for the fact that there is two fuel lines from the tank and one intake may be a little higher than the other. Anyone have any better answers?

Total bill was for almost $700. It hurt but considering he had to take the injectors apart and clean them and flush/drain the other lines and tank I guess it was fair.

I will change the water separators every four or five hours for a while anyway.

Thanks for your input.

 

[bayrat]

"Secondly, why all the water in the port engine and little/none in the starboard engine? Mechanic couldn't answer except for the fact that there is two fuel lines from the tank and one intake may be a little higher than the other. Anyone have any better answers?"

That makes sense to me as the water is in the lowest portion of the tank and that pickup is reaching it first, leaving the other higher one to pull gas. As for how it got in I honestly cant think of any other way than a bad load of gas.

 

[wspitler]

Also why didn't you get a water warning from the engine mounted fuel filter? As I mentioned on 9/5 mine didn't work on my port engine (LF250) and was replaced under warranty. Thay are fairly easy to check. I'd check it so you might get a heads up if it happens again. You can unmount it from the engine and invert it if the hoses permit. That should set off the warning on the dash as the float rises to the top of the filter housing. I have expereinced a very similar problem with my port engine and I had kept my aux tank (fairly) full as well. I run port on aux tank and stbd on main tank. I suspect condensation anyway. I have drained water separators after each trip until, after about 10-15 hours no water comes out. Draining the separators into a clear jar (caution flammable) will allow you to clearly see separation of water and gas. Mine finally got completely free of water, but I'll still check the aux every 50 hours or so.

 

[bayrat]

"You can unmount it from the engine and invert it if the hoses permit. That should set off the warning on the dash as the float rises to the top of the filter housing. "

Good info, thx. Im due to change mine soon, will give that a shot then

 

[LUNDINROOF]

Also why didn't you get a water warning from the engine mounted fuel filter? As I mentioned on 9/5 mine didn't work on my port engine (LF250) and was replaced under warranty.

I don't know, good question for the dealer when he opens tomorrow.....

The dealer recommended that I check the filters after about 5 hours. Shouldn't I be able to empty them to see if they had water and put the same filters back on?

 

[wspitler]

Yes, I've found water in both the engine mounted filters and the OEM Yamaha water separator spin ons even after the water quantities dissipate somewhat. I may eventually add a set of Racor separators with the see thru and drainable bottom as a extra precaution. I'd spring for new engine mounted (paper) filters if I found any water since (I've been told) water can swell the paper and inhibit flow. I only put on new (spin on) water separators if I find more than a 1/2" of water in the glass jar after I pour it out. Spin ons hold about a quart and are rated at 90 GPH flow so they may accept a little swelling if there is paper in there. Since the 330 has large tanks (195 main and 155 aux) there is a lot of condensation room if temps go up and down and there is high humidity at less than full quantities. Large aircraft wing tanks can make gallons of water in just a short time in and out of hangars with big temp swings. That's my previous world as a aero eng. but I've been surprised at the amount of water I found. I now try my best to keep the tanks topped off and the Orings in perfect shape with some silicone grease to help the seal. All tanks still have to "breathe" through either an external vent (older models) or through the cap (newer models). Temperature swings and humidity are our enemies. Good Luck!

 

[ahill]

Ignition switch is a good place to start.
I had the same problem on my prior boat with OMC's.
The killswitch is wired to the ignition switch, I think a purple wire also may be yellow & black. Time has a way with memory.
Take the purple/BY wire off the switch & try to start. if it starts the problem is the switch.
To turn off the motor you will need to choke it until it stops.
Wrap the exposed wire in tape before starting as it carries megavolts.

 

[BobP]

Linden - you running ethanol or non-ethanol fuel down there, or a combo?

 

[LUNDINROOF]

Sorry for the late reply, been out of town. In the past two years or more I have used nothing but ethanol free fuel.
Since my last post, I have put about five hours on the engines. I am going to change the warer separator filters next time I go to the coast and will let you know if I picked up any water in them.

 

[BobP]

The reason I ask, is because in ethanol, water cannot separate out of alcohol.
Since not, If you have the larger racors or equal mounted in the boat, with the drains valve, each trip just drain off an amount equal to 1/3 a clear poland spring small container and let it sit undisturbed, you will see two colors at the separation line. If the fuel is heavily contaminated the separator doesn't work to separate. It will gladly pass water right thru, but the water will be nicely filtered! It works just as well as a water filter.

Up north here only ethanol in use for many years now. What we look for is phase separation, much darker color than fuel itself.