Ring Free / Synthetic Oil ???

Tunateaser

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Hi Guys,

Can you folks help me out with a question? I have asked the dealer if it's necessary to use Ring Free in the 4 stroke motors. I always used the stuff on my last boat but it has a 200 Yamaha 2 stroke. Dealer tells me it's a wise move to use it with 4 strokes as well.

Also, Dealer had no opinion on using synthetic oil in the 4 stokes. He did say that Yamaha 4 stroke oil 10w30 has marine grade anit corrosion property's that I need to stick with to continue the warranty.

Thank You, Dan
 

gradyfish22

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I would recommend using the ring free, even though many debate its need. Using it is still good for the engine. As for the sythetic oil, I know a lot of guys use other brands then Yamaha, boating mag did a test about a year ago testing various brands and makes to see what lasted longer, I think Mobil one was one of the recommended oils, I'm sure that test can be found online now. Like your dealers stated, make sure you stick with the oil properties that your engine requires.
 

BobP

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Ring Free is a fuel system cleaner, the same as Techron is to your car.
Your Yamaha 4 stroke owners manual calls for it's use all the same as the two stroke manual. Same concentration too.

One 32 oz container costs $37. up here, but good for 320 gals of fuel.

That's over $1200 in fuel for just $37 in cleaner.

Anyone who doesn't use it joins the poster boy club for being penny wise and pound foolish.
 

Curmudgeon

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He did say that Yamaha 4 stroke oil 10w30 has marine grade anit corrosion property's that I need to stick with to continue the warranty.


If you check your owner's manual, I bet you find where Yamaha oil is "recommended", but only oil meeting a certain SAE spec is required. If the manual "specifies" Ringfree, then use it. If it's only recommended, do what you think fair, carbon buildup isn't near the problem with properly tuned and maintained 4 bangers.

If your dealer persists in telling you Yamaha oil is required, ask to see it in print from Yamaha .. and don't hold your breath waiting!
 

BobP

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Curm, guys with Fs over at THT- SIM are reporting buildup of carbon.
 

Grog

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Yamaha cannot force you to use their oil. As long as the oil meets the specification they cannot say anything about it.

Like I said in an earlier post, do you use ringfree in your car? If there is carbon build-up after 2 tankfulls, then Yamaha really needs to tune their engines better.
 

gradyfish22

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It has nothing to do with tuning the engines, it is how the engines are used/ran. Car engines are ran at lower rpm's, and have transmissions, an outboard does not have a tranny and it runs at a higher rpm for a greater period of time. Your outboard takes a bit more abuse. You also burn fuel through your outboard a bit faster then you do in a car.
I agree, I wish it did not have to be used, but it does. That is a sacrifice you make to run one of their engines and to be happy. If you do not use it and something goes wrong, you will wonder why and you will be responsible.
 

CJBROWN

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Amsoil 4-stroke outboard synthetic and PI - "Performance Improver" - for the fuel. You can't go wrong. Let them flame... 8)

Yamaha OEM oil filters only, Yamaha OEM 10 micron fuel/water separator fuel filter - only. The sierras are crap. People still buy Fram filters for their cars too - Wix, Hastings, Amsoil, or Donaldson ONLY!! BTW, Donaldson developed a new nano-tech filter medium they market thru Amsoil in their EaO series filters. Oil analysis testing has shown that oil comes out cleaner with them than it does out of the bottle.

They're recommending a fuel treatment due to the grade of fuel we get these days, oxygenated and acohol-ated :wink:
Ring Free was created by Chevron for Yamaha for the oil burners, particularly for the oxygen sensor in the exhaust. The new four-stroke doesn't suffer the same issues, but it's a great revenue source so you 'should use it'. IMHO, techron (it is not the same as ring-free), startron, or Amsoil PI will work just fine for the F's. But do what you are comfortable with.
 

Grog

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Ever read a pair of spark plugs? You don't do it after idling. Upper RPM's and running under a load will not cause carbon build-up. Look up the term "get the lead out", it's not done by babying the engine.

I'm not saying don't use ever, but using it like you have a 2S is just $ in Yamaha's pockets.

If you don't maintain your engine and the thermostats stay open, the engine runs cold and you will run rich and have carbon issues. Now if you maintain your engine and watch for problems (which you or someone else should be doing anyway), it's not an issue.
 

hangman1176

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i know this for 4s snowmobiles that dealers say do not run synthetic right off the bat, it prevents the rings from seating. Once synthetic is used oil consumption mayu occur at a minimal rate.
 

CJBROWN

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hangman1176 said:
i know this for 4s snowmobiles that dealers say do not run synthetic right off the bat, it prevents the rings from seating. Once synthetic is used oil consumption mayu occur at a minimal rate.

I have used synthetic oil in every new car I've had since the 80's, more than a dozen of them, and a host of used cars with every range of miles, low to high. NONE of them have ever used oil, or extremely little use on some of the hi-milers, except an old Mercedes 190e, and it leaked like a sieve. Some that used oil quit or slowed consumption after putting synthetic in. I have never owned a vehicle long enough to wear the motor out that ran synthetic. But I have seen and heard of many that have, and a properly cared for motor will last twice as long as one that's not. It's not generally the crank and bores that go, it's the other functions that give up and it self destructs.

Years ago I ran dino oil with Marvel Mystery oil, and that was almost as good as a synthetic. When we raced 2-strokes synthetics were the only way to go. Motors ran cooler and lasted twice as long, and the oil doesn't burn so you could run a much leaner ratio. Carbon just ruins a power valve on a race bike. Early on we used castor based oils, and they were really dirty. They still use bean oil in racing 2-stroke karts, but they don't run power valves in them, they are for making low-end power and karts run at over 10grand. They also rebuild them (rings) every 25-30 hours.

Plugs can only be read after a normal load run of some duration. They should be light brown, not white, not black. A four stroke does not have oil in the fuel so they don't get black unless something is wrong. The oil should stay in the crankcase and below the rings. That's what an oil ring is for. Carbon will gather on the top of the piston, in the ring grooves, and on the dome of the head, and can interfere with exhaust valves and injectors. A super-detergent topping oil in the fuel will reduce those deposits, as will an anti-carbon additive. Ring-free is the latter, but i prefer the former, PI falls under the former. If your fuel is fresh it should take MANY many miles and hours of use to build up carbon to where its an issue.

Motors are setup tight, and there's nothing wrong with a little cross hatch in a bore, if it's put together tight it will stay that way. Motors in general are setup with half the tolerences of years gone by. Synthetics have been demonstrated over and over to reduce friction and wear by a huge margin, particularly in high-stress wear areas, like wrist pins and valve guides.

Yamalube is a semi-synthetic premium oil with a good anti-corrosion package. Switching to a full synthetic after the first oil change is a non-issue. While manufacturers specify lubricants for their machines, consider that they are not in the oil business, they buy it from somebody else. There's nothing to say that there aren't competing products. So many people get caught up in this 'which oil is better' quandry, where any premium oil that meets those specs will be sufficient. There has never been a question in my mind that Amsoil, or Mobile, or Red LIne, or any host of manufacturers make a competing product. Just make sure they specify for your application.

Sorry for rambling...
 

Grog

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hangman1176 said:
i know this for 4s snowmobiles that dealers say do not run synthetic right off the bat, it prevents the rings from seating. Once synthetic is used oil consumption mayu occur at a minimal rate.

Unless your block was honed to break-in using synthetic oil, you should use the standard oil for the first oil change. Some engines are designed to be broken in on synthetics like Corvettes and were honed differently. You may get away with synthetic on a break in but way too many motors are messed up with rings that didn't seat right because of their owners.
 

BobP

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4 stroke Yamaha Fs don't use mass air flow meters in their fuel management systems, I don't think any 4 stroke outboard does - if the Fs do they are hiding somewhere under the cowl.
Probably due to space limitations, they had no choice.

The double wide V6 Fs, wider than any other V6, has three throttles stacked on either side of the block half way back, no wonder. Then it's just the intake collector.

This is entirely unlike fuel injection systems in cars, be it multipoint or throttle body. The mass air flow meter establishes fuel injection open time, not the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor only tweaks the mixture the few operating conditions it may drift rich, otherwise does squat. That's why your car drives on fine with the O2 sensor disconnected, passing an emissions test however is another story.

Not so with the 4 stroker Fs, the O2 sensor is all there is.
A compromising way to control the fuel injection rate. It's too late in the system being after-the- combustion- fact, not prior to combustion as in the air flow meter- in line with the air filter. So to get favorable operability throughout the range of use, the engine fuel control algorithms are biased to go rich otherwise it will stumble and make for unsatisfied customers, or worse - burnt pistons.

You may want to consider the relative importance of fuel system cleaner use in the 4 stroke Fs vs. car engine. There is no way an F can stay as lean all the time as any car FI engine can do. This may help to explain to other members why THT has reported carbon buildup to SIM, then ask what to do about it. Like some of you, they didn't expect it since car plugs stay clear of carbon.

The above has nothing to do with carbed 4 strokers, if there are any out there, only fuel injection.

Same goes for my HPDI, no mass air flow meter, be it conventional mechanical type or hot wire. Only an O2 sensor.
 

Grog

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There are MAF and speed density fuel injection systems. Do a little reading:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/electronic_fuel_injection/index.html

The CPU can read airflow by the MAF or calculate the airflow by vacuum and RPM.

Your car runs fine without the O2 sensor (you probably have 2)? Without the O2 reading and warm it will go into a limp mode, now if it's still in a valid range and reading rich (when it's not) it will lean out the mixture and eventually you'll be engine shopping.

You only need to go rich when the throttle is tipped to prevent the stumble otherwise you're just wasting fuel.