Water Intrusion in Flotatio

[reactlaser]

Has anyone experienced a break down of the foam and a resultant "waterlogging" of the foam injjected between the deck and outer hull.

My '85 190 Tournament is now sitting lower in the water at the transom ( squatting if you will). The self bailing scuppers are right at the water level.

Can't find a way to decide if I have a waterlogging problem, a retained water issue or what.

Any experience with this...

Also is there such an tool as a non destructive water detector to determine if there is "trapped water"??

 

[gradyfish22]

There are a few things to consider here.

Have you replaced the gasket on your deck inspection hatches?
Is your deck caulk breaking down or original, might need replacement?
Are your thru hulls plastic nylon and should they be replaced?

These items might be allowing water to accumulate in the hull and are fairly quick fixes other then the thru hulls.

It could be possible you have a wet transom, have you or previous owners drilled into the transom, was an epoxy used to seal the holes and allowed to harden before drilling screw holes, did you use a 4200 or 5200 to bed the screws or a silicone that would have broken down by now below the water line.

Another question is, are your bilge pumps working, water should not be allowed to accumulate over time, or atleast not enough to waterlog the foam.

Another thing to consider, is the boat left in the water, was she bottom painted correctly? Was there a barrier coat applied or just bottom paint? A barrier coat is the only way to truely seal a hull if left in the water, any other method will allow water to seep into the gelcoat and hull over time weakening it and also adding weight.

It is hard to have one diagnosis to determine what the cause is without a bit of investigation, if your not overly handy, a marine surveryor might be best to determine the cause. It is not unlikely for this to happen on older boats, but it was preventable perviously, and can still be corrected once you figure out the culprit. It is not normal aging, but a lack of knowledge and care, or possible maybe a defect in the boat or possible damage over the years. Regardless of what the cause was or whose fault it was, it can be fixed with a few $'s and investigation. Chances are it is not an overly worrysome issue, but it is important to look into it and stop it if possible to ensure your boat stays safe and lasts a long time. It also gives you a piece of mind to know your boat is not falling apart beneath you while your on the water. It is surely cause for some looking into but hopefully it is not anything too major.

 

[gw204]

Easiest way is to take all the "stuff" out of the boat, empty the fuel tank and take it to a truck scale to be weighed. Then subtract the weight of your tow vehicle, the weight of the engine and the weight of the trailer. Compare the end result to what Grady listed to original dry weight as.

 

[reactlaser]

Thanks

the boat is trailered and upon putting it in the water, it just sits with the scuppers at the waterline. i replaced the engine two years ago with a 200 hp Optimax and it is 100 plus pounds more than the Merc 150 I took off. But the difference seems extraordinary and to my recollection was not an immediate change..

Is there a simple way to "check" the conditon of the interlayer foam?

I can only see stringers from the access ports and the gas tank area without some distructive investigation.

Boat has never been "LEFT" in the water for more than three weeks at at time. No bottom paint.

there are screws in the lower transom ( I bought the boat used) from where the previous owner had a transom mounted depth finder. They appear to be siliconed in and I have not removed them.

This isn;t my first Grady . I have been a Grady owner for more than twenty years. just found this site and am happy to "Talk Grady" with others

Mike

 

[Capt Bill]

Mike, take the screws out of the lower transom (transducer-mount, wire clamps, anything below the waterline). Those screws need to be re-bedded properly, anyways. Is water coming out of the screw holes? If it is, you will need to deal with that first, before re-installing the screws. You also may need to remove the engine, so you can emove the transom cap (aluminum piece over thr transom cutout for the engine). That is an area that can also allow water in. If the transom is dry, re-bed all the screws as noted in a previous post.

Your scuppers also have screws which should be be removed, and re-bedded. Do you still have the plastic scuppers? I'd change them out to bronze, and replace those hoses while you're at it. If they haven't been replaced, they are rotted, and can fail suddenly.

The mounting screws for the gas fill, and gunnel-mounted rod-holders can be a souce of water entering the hull sides. A surveyor should be able to tell if there is water in the core, but I'd suggest you check these things and let us know what you find.

 

[gradyfish22]

Capt Bill is 100% on, remove the screws in the transom anyways, silicone is not the right type of sealnt for those screws, more importantly if there is no transudcer there anymore they should no longer be there to fill the holes, the holes should have been epoxied over. If the ducer is still in use, use 4200 to seal the screw holes, although personally I like to drill holes(slightly bigger then screws to be used, fill them with epoxy throughly and then drill your holes for the screws and seal the screws with 4200, the epoxy will waterproof the transom so even if water gets in thropugh the holes, your transom is safe, you might just get a drop or 2 in the bilge. If you are using epoxy and 4200 you should not have a problem at all and it will last longer then the transducer will.

Before you remove the screws, make sure you drain the boat first by tilting it up and removing the plug, once you feel all the water is out, then remove the screws to see if your transom has water in it. If it dribbles out you have a transom issue that needs quick attention before it gets worse or your transom fails, especially since you repowered recently. Did your yard who repowered you check your transom, a good yard will ALWAYS do this as a precaution, but a lot do not...they should be doing so though unless they do not care about customers or well just do not put the extra effort in.

As far as weighing the boat, Grady's weight does not include any extra's, batteries, bimini's, hardtops, etc so it would be really really tough to do this and really tell if your boat weighs more then it should, plus you need an accurate weight of the trailer and to know the exact amount of fuel in the boat, things most guys cannot get or know exact enough to do this and get any real concrete conclusion from it. Good idea, but hard to conclude anything from it in reality since there are too many variables and too many unknowns or close guesses.

As far as the boat sitting lower, I repowered a 1989 22 seafarer with a 200 HPDI from an evinrude 225, engine was 96 lbs more I believe, plus all new rigging, bigger oil reservoir, and the boat dropped almost an inch at the transom, at first it seemed low to us, but with full tank the bottom edge of the scupper just barely touched the water, and when your out in any seas drifting or anchored, they would get covered at that depth or sitting an inch higher. We did have to get used to the new feel of the boat, but never felt it was dangerous or close to that, we had plenty of freeboard and had no issues draining the cockpit or with waves flooding it or water ever sitting in it, it was just how it was with the previous engine. Did you have the boat full of fuel a lot, or laoded any differently previous to the trips where you felt it sat lower at the transom? Any new accessories or new/bigger batteries?

 

[seasick]

Has anyone experienced a break down of the foam and a resultant "waterlogging" of the foam injjected between the deck and outer hull.

My '85 190 Tournament is now sitting lower in the water at the transom ( squatting if you will). The self bailing scuppers are right at the water level.

Can't find a way to decide if I have a waterlogging problem, a retained water issue or what.

Any experience with this...

Also is there such an tool as a non destructive water detector to determine if there is "trapped water"??

There are marine moisture meters. They are placed on the surface and do not need to penetrate the material.
Any good surveyor should have a meter. Usually the meters only penetrate an inch or so but that should be plenty to tell if there is an issue. The nice thing about the meter is that by scanning a large area, you can map out where the moisture is. That often helps locate the water entry point.
For decks, the boat can be in the water but for hulls it needs to be out and somewhat dry on the outside. ( in other words, you can't use the meter in the rain, just after the rain or in freezing temps).

 

[richie rich]

the problem with a moisture meter is that it really wants to give you the moisture results closest to the surface its reading. What you're looking for is water in the foam layer which is up to 1/2 inch away....I doubt it will be accurate at all. I had my 88 sailfish done last year....was told it was OK so I Interprotected the hull to make that water tight. But this boat sits low in the water as well, so I removed the gas tanks in April...guess what...the stringers and transom had rotted spots in it and the rest of the wood is completely water logged. Grady does not seal the end grain of its stringers and bulkheads verywell at all with resin.....it soaked up water over the years like a sponge. I have gutted the entire mid section aft to the transom and will be replacing everything. The foam itself is dry from the top down until it reaches about 1/4 inch above the glass hull. It's completely wet there and it will not release the water....there is no place the water can go...its trapped. So you have two choices, gut everything and replace all the wood and reglass as I am doing, or simply reseal every hole, thru-hole fitting and deck seal imaginable and live with the extra weight. This will pretty much happen to every boat that uses wood in its construction as it get on in years. The weight gives it the nice ride, but this it what you will eventually deal with over time unless you can afford to trade in and buy a new one every 10-15 years before it happens.

 

[BobP]

Any water coming down the gunnel internals or even a sink drain leak needs to eventually find the bilge, the foamed in areas need to be sloped and have drains as needed so no water buildup occurs. I've looked down the length of the side hull from the port cabin back to the stern, and the foam which is under the fixed cockpit foor, is angled up as it rises over the lower outer stringer to meet the taller main stringer, as it should be.

Under the lower berth on the port side, the main stringer is drilled to allow water to reach the bilge.

The foam is supposed to be sealed with lightly thickened resin. If not and a puddle forms and stays because the foam was not slopped properly, it is doomed sooner to saturation.

And Grady doesn't glass over the stringer and bulkhead- heads, not a good idea, especially since teh foam slops pass teh top of these heads.
That's why I have been advocating to be sure gas tank and bilge cover screws are sealed tight, and the cover joints, since they are screwed into the stringers and bulkheads.

And it doesn't matter if the boat is moored or not.

 

[richie rich]

Not sure why the end grain of a wooden stringer or bulkhead would not be glassed over or at leased resined over to prevent water absorption. That is bad news from the get go. On my 88, the foam under the fixed deck is sloped, but does not reach the top of the main stringer. Its actually about 2 inches short on both sides of the boat. And it wouldn't matter much as the stringers and main bulkhead were butted up tight to the deck and squished between several layers of chopped matt, but was done so poorly the matt never really bonded to the wood in all the spots.
Any water or condensate that originally forms on top of that foam has nowhere to go. You could see black mold on top of the foam from 20 years of never getting dry. The foam was put in after the fliberglass layup was dry....there was no bond between the foam and the hull or stringer as it popped off perfectly clean as if it had a release coat on it. Since the foam expanded in full contact with the main stringer, there was no channel for moisture to escape and no limber hole in the stringer. As suggested, that would have helped tremendously. But the moisture hung around and eventually rotted out the main stringers and the gas tank stringers which sit further down in the bilge. Only the plywood deck supporting the belly of the tanks was glassed over, and only on the top side. The bottom of the plywood deck facing the bilge water and the gas tank stringers themselves just sat open and unresined in the heart of the bilge. The wood fell apart like a pulled pork sandwich! And weighed a ton.
On this repair, all wood surfaces will either be glassed or resin encapsulated with epoxy, limber holes and channels will be placed correctly, and the new foam will be poured in on top of a wet epoxy surrounding in order to bond and seal.
Its a big job, so unless Seasick wants to get into the bilge of his boat like this....just go through the boat, and seal it up as best you can....and keep catching fish...

 

[BobP]

I think Grady used a router rig to set the precise height of all the grid heads to meet the liner properly.

The heads where the glass meets is too sharp to be layed up that way, IMHO. They would have had to soaked the end grain several times to protect it, not unless it goes underwatar then only glass will protect it.

Not that it's an excuse.

You could now write your own book on how not to build a boat, I would venture to say (?)

 

[richie rich]

You got that right! I'm documenting the whole thing step by step with pictures. Spoke with Grady a dozen times just to get good insight on the how and why they did things. They are great to work with. Once done, I'll have a CD-ROM of the whole thing if anyone is interested.

I think most of the problems are simply manufacturing time and speed, not by design. Once they mix the resin the clock is ticking...they're not gonna individually resin each edge of each piece of structure because that takes extra time and labor cost...maybe if they made it in China they could afford to pay a guy to do that job....plus if they made it last forever, we'd never buy another boat