Trailer Recommendations for Freedom 285

kas919 said:
Dennis. Thank you again for all of your information and knowledge. I truly appreciate it. With everything that you've said and what others have said, I definitely will be buying a trailer with EOH.. I actually got a quote yesterday on an All Marine. Triple axle. 15000 GVWR with EOH, which I know is extreme overkill, but the price really was not that surprising to me. It was less than actually some of the tandem axle trailers that I've been looking at, and this would be a new custom build as well.
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Of course - you're welcome! A lot of the things I talk about are based on "truths" I've found over the years. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a "truth" for everyone - so always take my ramblings with a grain of salt ;)

Something to consider... going with a higher capacity isn't "always" better. A higher capacity trailer often leads to a rougher ride for the boat. Being 3K over at your weight, though, isn't as bad as being 3K over with a 5K boat.

As noted above, check out the components used in the trailer - they all look shiny when they're new, but you want something that will be reliable. I don't know anything about All Marine so I won't comment one way or the other. Also... will you have easy access to warranty repair if needed? Meaning, it's best to buy local.
 
Hey Dennis,
With all of your trailer experience, have you ever seen a tandem with the axles further apart for stability? If so, did it make a worthwhile improvement?
 
That's a great question. Some big rig trailers have that setup and I've always "assumed" it's for better weight distribution and to avoid too much weight on the pin/tractor. But to answer your question, no, I have never personally come across that. Just thinking out loud - I wonder if it would actually be detrimental to do that? Meaning, the majority of the weight of a boat is the back third so it seems like that would be where we'd want the axles. If one axle was moved forward, then the rear axle would take more of the weight. Or at least, that's my first stab at thinking about this :p
 
DennisG01 said:
That's a great question. Some big rig trailers have that setup and I've always "assumed" it's for better weight distribution and to avoid too much weight on the pin/tractor. But to answer your question, no, I have never personally come across that. Just thinking out loud - I wonder if it would actually be detrimental to do that? Meaning, the majority of the weight of a boat is the back third so it seems like that would be where we'd want the axles. If one axle was moved forward, then the rear axle would take more of the weight. Or at least, that's my first stab at thinking about this :p
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As long as the center of mass is smack in the middle of the 2 axles, weight distribution can be 50/50 regardless of spacing.
 
I’ve towed my Grady 282 some long distances and at this point won’t do that any longer. It’s not the width of the boat, it’s the heights that are the challenge. Low wires, overpasses add way too much stress for me.
I have a triple axle trailer and tow behind a GMC 2500 which handles the load fine. Previously I used a Silverado 2500, both with diesel engines.
If I were buying a new trailer I’d go with dual axle, electric over hydraulic and disc brakes. I find the triple axle challenging in both parking lots with tight turns and on freeways where there are uneven surfaces. I have plenty of weight on the hitch but there is still a tendency for the trailer to porpoise, especially when empty.
 
DennisG01 said:
Agree.

But am I thinking of this correctly... wouldn't the tongue have to be quite a bit longer, then?
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I'm not sure I follow the your thought. I wouldn't think it would need to change. If you take a triaxle and remove the center axle to make it a tandem, your weight distribution shouldn't be far off. I would think only a minor change would be required to get the right tongue weight. Otherwise, the only thing changing is the capacity by losing 1 axle. Same as a semi trailer, I think. Am I missing something?
 
family affair said:
I'm not sure I follow the your thought. I wouldn't think it would need to change. If you take a triaxle and remove the center axle to make it a tandem, your weight distribution shouldn't be far off. I would think only a minor change would be required to get the right tongue weight. Otherwise, the only thing changing is the capacity by losing 1 axle. Same as a semi trailer, I think. Am I missing something?
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Hmmm. Let's see if this better explains what I'm thinking... or if I'm way off base!

With the triaxle example, the axles are already setup for the length trailer/boat. Eliminating the second axle only affects the load carrying capacity which, for this hypothetical discussion, doesn't really apply and is, as you mentioned, a solvable issue.

However, if we take a tandem axle trailer and push the axles further apart... and you usually can't move them aft very far... this will effectively change the tongue weight... and by quite a lot. It doesn't take much axle movement to change the tongue weight significantly. So... to retain the proper tongue weight... the boat would have to be moved forward on the trailer... which means we now need a longer tongue. Effectively, we still have the same "X" lbs over the two axles and the same "X" lbs at the tongue... so benefits/detriments...

-- More stable at speed

-- More scuffing of tires during turning/preamture wear
-- longer rig/less maneuverable
-- higher price trailer
 
DennisG01 said:
Agree.

But am I thinking of this correctly... wouldn't the tongue have to be quite a bit longer, then?
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DennisG01 said:
Hmmm. Let's see if this better explains what I'm thinking... or if I'm way off base!

With the triaxle example, the axles are already setup for the length trailer/boat. Eliminating the second axle only affects the load carrying capacity which, for this hypothetical discussion, doesn't really apply and is, as you mentioned, a solvable issue.

However, if we take a tandem axle trailer and push the axles further apart... and you usually can't move them aft very far... this will effectively change the tongue weight... and by quite a lot. It doesn't take much axle movement to change the tongue weight significantly. So... to retain the proper tongue weight... the boat would have to be moved forward on the trailer... which means we now need a longer tongue. Effectively, we still have the same "X" lbs over the two axles and the same "X" lbs at the tongue... so benefits/detriments...

-- More stable at speed

-- More scuffing of tires during turning/preamture wear
-- longer rig/less maneuverable
-- higher price trailer
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I loose sleep trying to work out the math for setting up a trailer but it is difficult.
Dennis, In your example of removing one axel of a tri-axel. do refer to the middle axel? I so, do you keep the spacing of the other two the same?

My thinking is that there probably is a mathematical approach to where two or three axels should be relative to the COG of the loaded vessel AND the trailer. That said, I would guess that the COG of the vessel is not the same as the COG of the unloaded trailer.
I would also think that after positioning the load on the trailer, the tongue weigh if incorrect would ideally be adjusted by shifting the load on the tires (including the trailer sprung weight. That implies that the axels have to be shifted and no-one in their right mind is going to do that.

Tongue weight can be tough to measure and/or set up. There are many variables to look at. Some degree of adjustment can be made with different drop/rise hitches as well as different hitch lengths.
It is still somewhat of trial and error
My advice is to select a trailer that is sized for the transom to bow eye length ( a fair estimate of that length for a mid sized hull is 2 feet less than the LOA (excluding things like pulpits).
My head is spinning again:)
 
seasick said:
I loose sleep trying to work out the math for setting up a trailer but it is difficult.
Dennis, In your example of removing one axel of a tri-axel. do refer to the middle axel? I so, do you keep the spacing of the other two the same?

My thinking is that there probably is a mathematical approach to where two or three axels should be relative to the COG of the loaded vessel AND the trailer. That said, I would guess that the COG of the vessel is not the same as the COG of the unloaded trailer.
I would also think that after positioning the load on the trailer, the tongue weigh if incorrect would ideally be adjusted by shifting the load on the tires (including the trailer sprung weight. That implies that the axels have to be shifted and no-one in their right mind is going to do that.
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Good thing my wife doesn't read this forum. Otherwise she would have evidence to support this statement! :) Ive done this multiple times with my own trailer. Some brands make this easy.
As for the math, it should be a simple free body diagram, but I don't have the time ATM to make one for this example. Maybe next week.
 
Moving axles does sound daunting - I get it. It's one of those things that once you've done a bunch of times it just becomes "another thing" to do. While it can also be done with jackstands/etc, it does help to have a shop with overhead lifts, though :p

Same with tongue weight - after awhile you can get pretty good at eyeballing it - and, truthfully, GW's are some of the easiest because of the shear line design.

Side note about drop/rise drawbars... it's best to use the proper one that keeps the trailer as level as possible to allow the surge brake coupler to work as best it can.

SS, that was FA's example - but, yes, unless I'm mistaken, it was just removing the middle axle.
 
I had to look u
family affair said:
Good thing my wife doesn't read this forum. Otherwise she would have evidence to support this statement! :) Ive done this multiple times with my own trailer. Some brands make this easy.
As for the math, it should be a simple free body diagram, but I don't have the time ATM to make one for this example. Maybe next week.
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I had to look up the term; Free Body Diagram
I am sure that in my engineering days as a student, I've seen the theories but I just don't remember the term
In any case, for those who would like to know a nit more, the following link is a start.

Drawing Free-Body Diagrams

The motion of objects is determined by the relative size and the direction of the forces that act upon it. Free-body diagrams showing these forces, their direction, and their relative magnitude are often used to depict such information. In this Lesson, The Physics Classroom discusses the details...
www.physicsclassroom.com www.physicsclassroom.com
 
This is close to what we want:


Kas, sorry for taking this off the rails, but we all might learn something of value from the discussion. Otherwise, I might have to walk through the snow to my garage and stare at my boat because I don't have much else to do! :)
 
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