1999 Sailfish 272 (2) serious issues.

[Gianni]

Hello all:

Been pulling my hair out of my head lately trying to get my boat running properly and it just wont happen.

1999 OX66 225HP

1) Went out all summer, boat worked fine. Last week both engines bogged down. Didnt know what it was till we pulled back to dock. Unscrewed fuel cansiters and we were loaded with water. Gas station has street tanks that also fuels cars, so the gas is good.

One mechanic stated to add alot of 2 stroke oil to gas, to help this issue. Not sure if that works.

What does everyone due to avoid excess water issues? Any additives you swear by?

Is there any place water can get into my tanks? I dont find it possible



2) After we flushed out fuel cansiters, this past sunday we pulled out of marina, went full throttle. For about 30 seconds, we were crusing nicely. Then both alarms sounded off..

My first thought is that this is a thermostat issue, does anyone agree with this possibility? I changed water pumps last summer so I cant see that being the issue.

Any ideas from anyone are greatly appreciated.

 

[Legend]

What do you mean fuel cansiters, fueld tank? ..if it is a fuel tank the first thing I would do is add a fuel water separator. Possible water sources other than being imported in the gas . A bad fuel tank cap, the gaskets sometimes wear out, the fuel vent tube possible be hit water spray while underway or power washing the boat. Leaking gasket around a fuel sender or a leaking tank - either one of these you would probably be smelling gas. Good Luck

 

[Gianni]

Sorry I meant large fuel filters and small ones on engine as well

 

[Gianni]

What do you mean fuel cansiters, fueld tank? ..if it is a fuel tank the first thing I would do is add a fuel water separator. Possible water sources other than being imported in the gas . A bad fuel tank cap, the gaskets sometimes wear out, the fuel vent tube possible be hit water spray while underway or power washing the boat. Leaking gasket around a fuel sender or a leaking tank - either one of these you would probably be smelling gas. Good Luck

Do you add anything to your fuel?

 

[DennisG01]

What were the alarms for? You may very well have a water in fuel sensor - usually located near the boat-mounted fuel/water seps. Did anything show on the Yamaha gauges?

If you're getting that much water in the fuel, it would explain why both alarms sounded at the same time. Don't assume your impellers are good just because you replaced them last year, though... but it would be odd for both to go bad at the same exact time. At this point, assuming the water is the issue, you're not going to be putting additives in to fix this. You need to pump the tank out till you get clean gas coming out. Boat will need to be perfectly still during this. Then, you'll be tracking down WHY you got that much water in there in the first place. The additives we put in are for fuel stabilization, keeping the fuel system/O2 sensor clean and dealing with MINOR water intrusion.

In addition to what Legend said, also check out the condition of your fuel tank(s) (corrosion holes).

 

[Fishtales]

you need to get the water out of the tank and inspect it. I'd be inclined to have the tank pumped and then inspected. I'd replace if necessary with an aluminum tank that is coated to mitigate future corrosion..

 

[Gianni]

I don’t believe my gauges work properly. How do I safely pump out a tank? Is there companies that remove gas for a fee? If I’m not mistaken- aren’t the tanks fiberglass rather than aluminum for this model year. I heard the aluminum tanks are the ones that fail. Also I didn’t know alarms sound off in boat for water- wasn’t aware of that.

 

[seasick]

You say that both engines bogged down. Is that true or did they go into safe mode? There are two things that will cause that and both would sound an alarm; Overheat or low oil level in engine mounted (main) oil tank.
What gauges do you have and did you see alarms on the gauges.
Now if there were no audible alarms or gauge alarms, you may have water in the fuel clogged VST filters.
If the issue is water in the gas, that doesn't have to be from a bad load. It can be caused by a progressive condition of water getting into the tank. That is usually caused by bad fuel filler o-rings, accumulation from condensation or water seepage.
Over time the water at the bottom of the tank gets deeper. When sitting at rest or when on plane, the pickup may not be reaching the water. When your bow is up either from trimming or getting onto plane, the depth of the water get larger since the tank bottom is now slanted aft. Then you may suck water into the engines. If both motors had the problem at the same time, I would lean towards contaminated gas. You don't have to pump out all you tank's contents especially if you have a lot of gas in there.
The best approach is to remove the sender and put a pump ( like a mechanical bilge pump) in the opening so that the pump gets to the bottom of the tank. Pump out the fluid into a container and have a good look at a sample that has sat for 15 minutes. Smell it. If it is gas, it will smell like gas. If it is water it will not smell as strong. Pump out until you get gas. Since the pickup tube is about an inch above the tank bottom, using the regular fuel line to pump out will not get all the water if there is water.

Note that if the motor dies or refuses to start due to water, you have to drain the separator, motor mounted filter and the VST tank. Make sure you hand prime the motor with the bulb before trying to start it after draining any of the filters or VST tank

 

[DennisG01]

I have a water in fuel sensor on my boat - there are wires leading from it. To be honest, I don't know if it will sound an alarm or just show up on the gauge. I "think" it would sound an alarm, though.

You won't have a fiberglass tank... or, at least, HOPE you don't. That would be a huge problem. You could have a poly tank, though - but I would've thought your year would still have Al? That would be an awful big plastic tank. That's easy enough to check, though - just look at it.

 

[seasick]

Just saw this comment 'One mechanic stated to add alot of 2 stroke oil to gas, to help this issue. Not sure if that works. '

I would find another mechanic. The oil won't do a thing for the water and may very well foul your plugs

 

[SkunkBoat]

You say that both engines bogged down. Is that true or did they go into safe mode? There are two things that will cause that and both would sound an alarm; Overheat or low oil level in engine mounted (main) oil tank.
What gauges do you have and did you see alarms on the gauges.
Now if there were no audible alarms or gauge alarms, you may have water in the fuel clogged VST filters.
If the issue is water in the gas, that doesn't have to be from a bad load. It can be caused by a progressive condition of water getting into the tank. That is usually caused by bad fuel filler o-rings, accumulation from condensation or water seepage.
Over time the water at the bottom of the tank gets deeper. When sitting at rest or when on plane, the pickup may not be reaching the water. When your bow is up either from trimming or getting onto plane, the depth of the water get larger since the tank bottom is now slanted aft. Then you may suck water into the engines. If both motors had the problem at the same time, I would lean towards contaminated gas. You don't have to pump out all you tank's contents especially if you have a lot of gas in there.
The best approach is to remove the sender and put a pump ( like a mechanical bilge pump) in the opening so that the pump gets to the bottom of the tank. Pump out the fluid into a container and have a good look at a sample that has sat for 15 minutes. Smell it. If it is gas, it will smell like gas. If it is water it will not smell as strong. Pump out until you get gas. Since the pickup tube is about an inch above the tank bottom, using the regular fuel line to pump out will not get all the water if there is water.

Note that if the motor dies or refuses to start due to water, you have to drain the separator, motor mounted filter and the VST tank. Make sure you hand prime the motor with the bulb before trying to start it after draining any of the filters or VST tank

Seasick said everything I was going to say! Also, one low oil tank will cause Safe Mode and BOTH audible alarms until you turn off the keys and restart.

 

[seasick]

Seasick said everything I was going to say! Also, one low oil tank will cause Safe Mode and BOTH audible alarms until you turn off the keys and restart.

Shunk,
The last part of your comment is important to know. The first time I had to troubleshoot a water alarm, I tried opening and then shorting the water sense lead to see if the alarm was caused by filter water. It took a while of head scratching until I figured out' that you have to turn the ignition off and then on to silence the alarm (assuming the cause of the alarm has been eliminated)

 

[Gianni]

The engines did not slow down in speed, just loud alarms. When i shut off and went very slow alarms wouldnt go off. Once i brought the engines up higher they would go off again. I was never aware that there was a water alarm in the boat, very interesting.

Im just trying to narrow down all possibilties. No one thinks its a thermostat issue?

 

[SkunkBoat]

If its a temp alarm, then the temp symbol will be flashing on the gauge.
If its oil, then the oil symbols will flash.
If there is an alarm, then somewhere something is flashing.
Don't know if you have a water in fuel sensor. My 2000 OX66s do not.
I'm guessing something on the fuel gauge would flash.

The oil alarm can be caused by the small oil tank in either engine reading low or by either large oil tank reading low.
There are float sensors in the tanks. If the tanks look full, it could be a connection problem
Also, there is an oil pump in each big tank that keeps the small tank in the engine full. There is a inline filter in the oil line from the big tank. If its not keeping up, you get alarms.

 

[seasick]

There may not be a water alarm. It is easy to tell. If there is a wire connected to the motor mounted filter ( the clear one) you have the alarm circuit.
If the oil in the main tank, the one on the motor gets low, the motor will switch to safe (lower revs) mode. It will not go into that mode if the oil in the remote tank is low but you will get an alarm display on your gauges.
Skunk is right on about the filter on the remote oil tank. If it gets clogged OR if the remote pump is not working up to spec, the main oil tank will run down. When it hits the low level trip point, you get an alarm and safe mode. This is easy to see by doing the following.As soon as the alarm sounds, power of the engine, keep ignition off and remove the cowling. Look at the mail oil tank. It should be full. If it is low about 1/4 from the bottom you can be certain that it is oil starved.
Turn on the ignition and see if the tank fills with oil. If it does but take a long time, you need to troubleshoot the remote tank. That filter or screen is on the back of the tank and you need to remove the tank to get to it. The pump is back there also but since at low speeds you don't get an alarm, I suspect the pump is probably OK. The filter/screen can be cleaned or replaced. While you are at it, empty the oil from the tank into a container so that you can check the bottom of the tank. It may be full of sludge which causes the filter to clog.

 

[DennisG01]

My water in fuel sensor is boat mounted - near the water/fuel sep. It appears very old - based on it's "patina" it may be original, but I am not the original owner to say if it's original, or not. It's a small sensor, inline with teh fuel hose - honestly, I didn't even know I had till about the 2nd year of ownership. The only "water sensor" that I know of on the engine is the red ring that floats inside the engine mounted fuel filter.

What do you mean by "I don't think my gauges work properly"? The advice above is all sound - but if you're not able to tell why the alarm is sounding, you might want to have a tech look at it - shouldn't take much time. Otherwise you may be chasing ghosts in "hopes" of fixing it by chance. Although, as mentioned, if you see something amiss with the main oil tank, that's pretty straight forward. Or, invest in a Winky Blinky code reader (they're not expensive) and monitor while you're operating the engine. I don't think codes will "store" in the engine computer, so you have to actively monitor.

T-stats "usually" fail in the open position, but not always. Regardless, if it did, that would only be one of the things that would cause an overheat issue - but just ONE of the components that could do that. That's why we need to figure out what system is causing the alarm - then dive into that system deeper. Otherwise, it's a just a guessing game.

But since there is/was an obvious issue with water in the fuel... Have you gotten that issue sorted out, yet? One step at a time. Run the engines with a portable tank.

 

[Gianni]

The engines did not go into safe mode when I had the alarms, not sure if that answers anyones question on possibilties.

One oil pump on one engine is bad, needs replacing but i filled the reservior prior to running the boat. Not sure if it pays to just replace both while im at it.

I will look into the fact if i do have a water alarm but I dont think so.

The week prior both engines bogged down, this time when alarms went off there was no bogging at all.

Like i also stated in my original post, once i shut off engines and ran it at throttle forward slowly, no alarms sounded off. Thats why i had a feeling it might of been a thermostat issue.

These past 2 years with my grady have been miserable between water last year in fuel and this year all these random headaches. I had 4 good years out of them and these 2 have been hell. Dont know if my motors have just had enough or its just maintainence issues. Only has 600 hours, so it isnt too used.

I havent been at boat yet to diagnose anything but i appreciate the replies and anymore that keep coming.

Thank you all..

 

[seasick]

The engines did not go into safe mode when I had the alarms, not sure if that answers anyones question on possibilties.

One oil pump on one engine is bad, needs replacing but i filled the reservior prior to running the boat. Not sure if it pays to just replace both while im at it.

I will look into the fact if i do have a water alarm but I dont think so.

The week prior both engines bogged down, this time when alarms went off there was no bogging at all.

Like i also stated in my original post, once i shut off engines and ran it at throttle forward slowly, no alarms sounded off. Thats why i had a feeling it might of been a thermostat issue.

These past 2 years with my grady have been miserable between water last year in fuel and this year all these random headaches. I had 4 good years out of them and these 2 have been hell. Dont know if my motors have just had enough or its just maintainence issues. Only has 600 hours, so it isnt too used.

I havent been at boat yet to diagnose anything but i appreciate the replies and anymore that keep coming.

Thank you all..

What do you mean by saying ' one oil pump on one engine is bad'? There is an electric pump on the remote tank and there is a mechanical one on the motor. If the tank pump doesn't work, eventually the main tank gets low, an alarm is displayed and the motor goes into safe mode.

If the mechanical pump on the motor goes bad, oil is not mixed in the VST tank and the motor could suffer catastrophic failure.

It would be helpful to all of us if you noted and told us what conditions were displayed on the gauges. The audible alarm by itself doesn't tell you a lot.


Bogging down is not an oil related condition. More often than not it is fuel starvation if it happens at speed under load. Could be clogged VST screen.

I can't add any more info without more specific symptoms

 

[Gianni]

I believe on the gauge it was the far left icon that was blinking. Im not familiar with the gauge icon meanings, my appologies.

A yamaha mechanic state and gave me a small round oil pump that he says sits below the live well, he stated you must remove live well and thats where the oil pump is, does that make sense?

I havent bogged down nor gone into safe mode the last time, just both alarms sounding.

Your time and information is very appreciated.

 

[Ozz043]

A lot of theories here and good ones too !

I had an issue with my remote oil tank filter being blocked, the pump could not deliver the oil to the powerhead tank quick enough so the float went down and the alarm sounded, this only happened at speed because oil demand is higher. The engine does not go into “safe mode” but I went into panic mode when the alarms sound and couldn’t tell which engine or what signal was flashing.....
To rectify this issue is simple, replace the small filter on the reserve tanks....getting the tanks out might be another issue.

This may / may not be your problem, there is manual toggle switch on the powerhead tank you can use to fill the tank “from memory “ you may be able to see which one fills slow ?

Good luck