2 stroke oil

[Curmudgeon]

they sell semi-synthetic oils everywhere which is just a 50/50 mix of both.

Well, not really. Semi oils are usually a highly refined petroleum base stock with a specialized synthetic additive package.

Won't matter to Yamaha then, will before.

Since when did Yamaha 'require' use of Lamadude? If it's still a TC-W 3 requirement, I believe owners can use whatever branding they wish as long as it meets specs .. :?

 

[richie rich]

From their website...."AMSOIL Synthetic Blend Motor Oils are a blend of synthetic fluids and petroleum oils. They are combined to form an all season motor oil that demonstrates many of the performance features of synthetic lubricants."

50/50 may be a general statement, but its not that far fetched.

 

[Curmudgeon]

AMSOIL Synthetic Blend 15W-40 Heavy Duty Motor Oil (PCO) features a dual-base of premium synthetic and hydro-processed base oils in formulation with proven high quality anti-wear additives

Not exactly like mixing what happens to be on hand. Oh, and all of their two cycle stuff is 100% synthetic. Just sayin ... :?

 

[Strikezone]

Which.product would be recommended for an OX66? I would like to give it a try.

 

[richie rich]

Curmudgeon...I understand what their oils are made of...I have been buying, using and selling them for almost 10 years....the question was asked if its required to empty whats left in your tank or would it matter if it were mixed. My reply was to state that they are compatible. Regardless of quality in the base stock, ie crappy, good or high performance super duper premium....Semi-synthetic or "Blends" are still conventional oil mixed with with a blend of synthetic fluids (ie Synthetic oil)....But they are all compatible. Fully synthetic does not use any "conventional" base stock. (just sayin)

Strikezone, use the HP Injector oil...Its made for Direct Injection or 50:1 dilution so many different outboards can use it........its $30/gallon retail or around $24 if you become a Preferred Customer. You can be a 6 month PC for $10...so in just a few gallons you pay back the membership and then you'll get dealer pricing. It takes around 2 gallons to fill a reservoir It's great stuff.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I'll see your 10 years and raise you 5 more, plus 40 years of use, none of which will buy either of us a cup of coffee!

I'm surprized a 10-year dealer woud say "... which is just a 50/50 mix of both", but you're certainly free to interpret fairy detailed corporate literature as you see fit.

:wink:

 

[richie rich]

I'm not a dealer in the sense that I own a distribution business or service center, so trying to "sell" the product on its detailed technical merits or chemical composition isn't a big deal. Amsoil isn't going to call me and take away my membership because I didn't follow their formal sales pitch. I don't work for them. That's why if you read the thread, I didn't really push it as its not my way of making a living. I sell it to family, friends, neighbors and co-workers who want a great product but really don't want to get into the science that deep...just does it work, how do I use it and is it cost effective? You can write a book on oil distillation columns, synthetic technology etc. and many have, but most folks wouldn't read it, right? Obviously, you understand its detail as I'm sure many techies on this site do, but the question that was asked by the GW owner deserved a simple analogy and reply in my opinion...sometimes less is more I guess? Anyway, it's good stuff... :wink:

 

[Curmudgeon]

Whatever ... :?

 

[BobP]

Curm, have you ever had a motor problem under warranty?
Where oil and gas condition may be the culprits?

If not, you will find out right away what I'm writing about.

Yamalube is the recomended lubricant, per owners manual. If lack of lubrication is the root cause of the problem, Yamaha can only point finger at their own Yamalube.

For whatever reason, Yamaha does not even sell a full synthetic two stroke oil for outboards. Ever wonder why?

 

[Curmudgeon]

..ever had a motor problem under warranty? Where oil and gas condition may be the culprits?

Yes, but only due to old fuel that fouled carbs. But not for oil, nor would I guess have most owners. Were I to, however, and the dealer started hedging on use of another brand (that otherwise meets manual specs), then we'll do battle to the death.

What folks don't seem to understand about a warranty is burden of proof. When I present a motor that's blown, or whatever, the onus is on the dealer to show the malfunction is due to oil that doesn't meet requirements and is not a manufacturing defect. "I think ..' doesn't cut it, 'the district rep says ...' doesn't cut it, they have to produce test results on motor and oil in use or it's off to see Judge Judy.

Yamalube is the recomended lubricant, per owners manual.

The operative word here is 'recommended'. Have you seen a manufacturer who didn't recommend their own branded oil? What else does Yamaha say about oil, like TC-W3 (or 4, or whatever is current)? Yamalube is a quality oil with a premium price, but it ain't the last word. And why put out a synthetic when they can package dino stuff for much less cost and sell it for the same (or greater) price as a synthetic?

With all that said, I'll paraphrase something mentioned way back. Who among us has heard of a major motor malfunction due to oil that didn't meet TC-W specs or was the incorrect oil for the appliction? I'm sure it has happened, but I've not seen/heard it in the 55 years I've been boating. :wink:

 

[BobP]

Curm, the burden is not on Yamaha, as you may think, all they have to say is it's not Yamalube. That's easy to eyeball.

You will have to hire an expert witness to testify since the courts won't listen to non-experts and also hire a lab to visit boat duly witnessed sample and analyze the oil in your tank - to prove it's to spec.

All the costs involved for the court case wil be way more than a new power head.

I prefer to avoid the battle by not giving Yamaha a way out. If they choose to deny claim.

Also, for all this time which could take months if not more than a year to come to court, the boat is out of commisssion, so I'm out thousands for the marina charges and not to mention the very reason I have a boat at all. The Yamaha dealer who's holding the boat can charge a storage fee.

By now we are talking several times the cost of a new powerhead.

But you are free to do battle with the Yamaha Corporation and their dealers, in or out of court.

 

[Grog]

If the oil you use is TCW-3 or DI rated for HPDI's Yamaha might fight it but they can't force you to use their oil. I doubt Yamaha is going to be the one giving you a hard time, if anyone is going to give you a hard time it will be the dealer. Yamaha will only know what the dealer tells them.

On a new motor be careful what oil you use. The rings may break in differently with full synthetic than standard oil. Once the rings are fully seated run whatever you want.

 

[BobP]

Yamaha doesn't have a full sythetic outboard oil, yet others on this site are recommending full synthetic.

So wyt hasn't Yamaha come up with a full synthetic? Are they not interested in making more moolah?

 

[Curmudgeon]

Asked and an answer suggested, Bob ... :?

 

[guido]

I assume the oil product you want to replace yamalube with is not free. Has anyone crunched the numbers to see what the actual savings is over the course of a year? Once that is done, is it worth the savings to risk real expensive engine troubles to save a few dollars. Yamalube was designed to work with the Yamaha engine and contains certain properties to keep your engine running properly for many years. Lets say Yamalube cost $30.00 per gallon and you use 20 gallons in a season, that's $600.00. Now replacement lube costs $10.00 a gallon and you use 20 gallons, that's $200.00. Is the risk worth saving $400.00, not to mention I think $10.00 a gallon is unrealistic. Just a thought.

 

[CJBROWN]

I assume the oil product you want to replace yamalube with is not free. Has anyone crunched the numbers to see what the actual savings is over the course of a year? Once that is done, is it worth the savings to risk real expensive engine troubles to save a few dollars. Yamalube was designed to work with the Yamaha engine and contains certain properties to keep your engine running properly for many years. Lets say Yamalube cost $30.00 per gallon and you use 20 gallons in a season, that's $600.00. Now replacement lube costs $10.00 a gallon and you use 20 gallons, that's $200.00. Is the risk worth saving $400.00, not to mention I think $10.00 a gallon is unrealistic. Just a thought.

Duh...y'all have missed the point. It's not about saving money, it's about a superior performing lubricant. There isn't any inherint 'risk'. The product performs better, a synthetic doesn't burn so it doesn't carbon and doesn't smoke. Your engine runs cleaner and lasts longer. And it has superior anti-corrosion additive package.

Yamalube wasn't 'designed to work with' their motors, it was chosen for it's spec and packaged for sale through their dealer network for use in their motors. That way they at least have a minumum spec their customers can depend on to protect their motor. Yamaha doesn't manufacture oil. They don't make their ringfree either, we've all discussed that to death.

All you naysayers, Bobp included, have obviously never tried the product. As I said before, I'm not trying to sell anyone, just sayin'. Although if anyone wants to buy product at wholesale I can set them up. And yes, it works better than yamalube. :mrgreen:

Oh, and Amsoil HPi injector oil is $22.95/gal at dealer cost when purchased buy the gallon. They do have a 16 gal keg that saves a bit per gal. So it's obviously not 'cheaper'.

And again, if you really want to learn more about lubricants, browse here:
www.bobistheoilguy.com

 

[guido]

You are right, I missunderstood the post. I appologize for confusing the issue.

JC

 

[Curmudgeon]

And yes, it works better than yamalube.

Happened to be in Gander Mountain today and stumbled across some Yamalube ($44 per, I might add). The 4-stroke is mineral based, and about $9/qt . Come to find out, Yamalube is really a semi-synthetic. By some accounts, I guess that means it's really a 50/50 mix of something and something else, neither of which can be as good as Yama .. oh, wait, that 's what it was. Never mind ... :wink:

 

[CJBROWN]

And yes, it works better than yamalube.

Happened to be in Gander Mountain today and stumbled across some Yamalube ($44 per, I might add). The 4-stroke is mineral based, and about $9/qt . Come to find out, Yamalube is really a semi-synthetic. By some accounts, I guess that means it's really a 50/50 mix of something and something else, neither of which can be as good as Yama .. oh, wait, that 's what it was. Never mind ... :wink:

In doing some more research on 2-stroke oils, it seems that Yamalube 2M is formulated to Yamaha spec by Citgo. It has synthetic additives and is therefore labled a semi-synthetic. It may or may not be 50/50, and certainly the base stock is mineral oil.

The latter is the primary difference between amsoil and other oils. The base stock is likely a group III or PAO with ester based additives.

Yamalube is a highly rated product for it's application. It was forumulated for low carbon and low varnish build up. A lot of owners and tech's are comfortable with choosing it and for good reason, it's factory recommended.

Amsoil is a leader in synthetic lubricants. They introduced synthetics for automotive use almost 40 years ago and there are many benefits and converts from mineral based lubricants for good reason. They are also very active in racing of all fields, and many with 2-stroke engines. Their particular claim to fame in this regard is snowmobiles, outboard racing boats, and motorcycles.

Those that have used their product will generally see an advantage, - smoother running, reduced wear, and a host of benefits you get with superior lubrication. This makes it easy to rely on their formulation for HPi 2-stroke outboard injector oil. Those that have used it find that it performs as well or better than other competing products.

 

[Curmudgeon]

It may or may not be 50/50,

Let's see, mineral base stock with synthetic additive package (with you so far, since that's what the label says) ... and it may or may not be 50/50 (which the label doesn't say)? You really have to get passed this over-simplification of the term "semi-synthetic". AMSOIL didn't 50/50 mix when they marketed a semi-synthetic motor oil, and it's highly unlikely Citgo/Yamaha does with their two-stroke stuff, either.

Didn't know YL is manufactured by Hugo Chavez (DBA Citgo) for a Japanese company, so it may well be they just throw stuff together ... :shock: