200 hpdi's oiling up?

[jekyl]

G'day from OZ, I have just given my 265 express her first Coral Sea fishing mission. We did approx 160 N.M. and she performed beautifully with full water and full main fuel tank and provisions for overnight and lots of ice, we maintained an easy 30 knts at 4200 rpm and used approx 18-19 u.s. GPH.
Other than the 4 hours at cruise we were trolling for the rest of the time at approx 5 - 6 knots using both single and dual mtrs.
My question is this: whilst she never coughed at troll revs when I would bring her back onto the plane either both or one motor would not reach full revs (ie cruising.....4200)
After our last stop and this problem occuring I guessed that it may be to do with the auto oil mix; not readjusting for different revs. So i stopped both motors swithched off both ignitions and then after 10 seconds restarted. She immediately jumped onto the plane and home we came.
Is my diagnosis on the mark and if so does this mean I have a problem with the technology. Surely it is able to cope with 2-3 hours trolling without oiling up?
I see everyone there seems to recommend "ringfree" I have not used this as yet. Would it help alleviate this problem or am I looking at something more complicated?

 

[ausandy]

hi from melb, what year are the hpdi`s? the early ones had a problem with oiling up. you might want to check the o2 sesor on the block. it has a small piston that carbons up from time to time. .... andy

 

[SlimJim]

Hpdi

Give Andy at SIM on THT a PM and he can maybe let you know what it is. I know that he has infor on Ring Free and he says you should use it on these engines. I am getting the same engines on my 265 so let us know what you find out.

 

[gradyfish22]

It might be a sensor, but if it seems like she will run for a bit, then drop rpm's, but be able to get back up and run after a few minutes of idling or shuting down, it may also be a fuel pump. I had that go on my HPDI. We would run for a while, then it dropped RPM's, but if you would pump the ball while running, it ran fine.
If the engine runs fine for a bit and then drops rpm's, that might be the culprite. If this is what is occuring, you might try having someone pump the ball for that engine, it should be located on that engines side where the fuel selection valves are. If as soon as you pump the ball, it seems the boat wants to go and runs fine, a fuel pump may be the problem. It could also be the fuel filter. There are 2, one in the engine which is expensive, and there should be one where the fuel selction valve is. The external one where the vavke is has been known to be a culprite if you have E10 in your fuel and it is not a newer filter. I believe Yamah recommends a 10 or 20 micron filter, I would contact a Yamaha dealer to check.

 

[fishingFINattic]

There are actually three fuel filters, one on the VST resevoir, one in a clear bowl on the side of the motor, and then a 10 micron in the fuel line.

If the rods that meters the oiling mixture is not adjusted correctly, that would cause plug fowling during long periods of trolling for sure.... but plugs wont unfowl by turning the key off

I have trolled for 10 hours at a clip, and only once fowled plugs. They required replacement and I could tell they were followed becaus the boat was burning close to 25 gallons per hour while on plane (vs 18).

With your description, I am leaning toward one of the fuel pumps or fuel filter, but I find it hard to believe both are doing it at the same time.....

When I first got my boat it had sat for awhile. I had to change out the 10 micron filters (twice) and VST filter on one of the motors once. Since then no problems.

Tim

 

[gradyfish22]

Also, I know your boat was shipped to you, I wonder if that boat Sat for a long period of time, you may have some bad gas which ties in with the filters. That might be your issue, adding some startron fuel addatives might help but will not solve your problem if that is it. FishingFinattic, your right there are 3 filters, I always forget that. The VSt is probably the least likely to clog since it is so far down the line, plus it costs the most to replace, I would check that one last. Usually the 10 micron external filters clog first. Regardless, those filter sshould be changed out according to Yamaha specs, I always change mine before the recommended hour period just to be safe. Changing those filters will probably be needed regardless, so you mgiht try that as well. Also, check your plugs, if they are really black or gunked, then oil may be an issue, but changing them out may be required regardless. I always changed them out every season after I dewinterized the engines, even though Yamah claims they will last much longer. I always carry atleast 1 spare filter(2 recommended) and one set of spark plugs for safety. You will need to use them at some point anyways, so it is not wasted money.

 

[jekyl]

Thanks guys, lots of info, I will get the yamaha mechs to check out the filters, and plugs. I just thought it might be a black box problem as it fired up as if nothing was wrong after switch off. With filters or plugs thats not going to go away that easily.......is it? Motors are 2003 with approx 750 hrs. they run very strongly and start immediately.

While i'm here I willl also ask what props you would recommend as it only pulls about 56oo rpm.Current ones are factory issue 17t and 17tL counterotating.

 

[gradyfish22]

with filters it can, they may only block over time, due to a higher speed of fuel flow through the filter. At low speeds, it is slower and enough fuel can pass, as you accelerate and start cruising, over time the bloackage can catch up with the filter and at some point will cause it to drop rpm's, this is the same case with a bad fuel pump. There is 1 low pressure and 2 high pressure fuel pumps on this engine. At certain fuel burn rates, your pumps may be able to handle it, until you start to use more fuel. There is also a chance that you have some sediment in your fuel line. There should be an anti siphon valve attached where the fuel line and tanks meet. This can clog sometimes as you bounce. You really do not need this at all on an outboard powered boat, it prevents fuel from going out of the line to the bilge, which is used on I/O's to keep fuel out of the bilge. Most outboard builders do not use it, but Grady does. I've heard on a few engines, this has caused some issues as well. There is often a tiny little screen where this valve and the tank fitting meet, this can be clogged as well if you have a bad load of fuel or your fuel as sat for a while. Also what fuel are you using, I'm assuming it is what Yamaha recommends, that engine will not run well on less octane. Unfortunetly there are a lot of tiny culprites that can be causing these symptoms, but hopefully this will help you narrow it down since I went through this myself.

 

[Tashmoo]

After reading your post and the replies one thing keeps bugging me and that is the shut down restart and problem is gone. That does not add up to oil fouling and I can't see how it relates to filters although it is possible I am sure.

It seams to me that it might be a fuel problem and possibly related to the long trolling periods allowing water and/or tank crap to agglomerate in one location, then when you hit the hammer it sucks into the fuel pickup. Does the problem also occur under normal running about or only after trolling?

The other thought is that it has to do with the high pressure pumps operating at low flow for long periods of time.

 

[jekyl]

It has only happened on the last trip which is the first fishing/trolling trip.I will check the filters and plugs. Fuel is fine but certainly there could be something leftover in the filters.
I just don't get why it would restart perfectly.........
Maybe the stopping and no draw on the filters is enough to move the sediment or whatever .........
Anybody got some ideas on what props would suit me best.The 17's I'm using ( there is no other measurement)give me a good top speed approx 40 knts but I can't pull full revs.(5800?)I will usually run the boat half full of fuel and water with 4 people and gear.
Any 265 owners withh 200hpdi's?

 

[BobP]

Get the boat and motor checked out by a Yamaha dealer, he will check the engine, computer, and oil and fuel systems in motor and boat. You may have faulty injector.

Who told you WOT top end is 5800 rpm ?

Follow the owners manual with respect to fuel system cleaner and fuel conditioner.

Regardless of what you might have read at this site, Ringfree is dirt cheap relative to fuel costs, unless you are buying fuel for a 75 cents a gallon.
If you don't have the owners manual, you can read it for free on Yamaha's website.

These modern outboard engines are very expensive machines, don't mess with them. A new power head will cost you $7K or more.

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

it is either

vst strainer or the 02 sensor is not reading right

if primer bulbs stay hard and pumping them does not help, you know the fuel lines,vents,bulb and pump are working

change all filters and run ring-free, since you guys might not have seafoam over across the pond

plugging it into yds will just give you codes, still will not fix the problem

i have 1500 hrs on my 2000, 200hpdi, no problems yet
i change filters every 100hrs with plugs and check vst strainer and drain my oil tank

if you want the factory manual, shoot me an email

 

[fishingFINattic]

with filters it can, they may only block over time, due to a higher speed of fuel flow through the filter. At low speeds, it is slower and enough fuel can pass, as you accelerate and start cruising, over time the bloackage can catch up with the filter and at some point will cause it to drop rpm's,.

This is called blinding of the media and could be the problem as described.

The fuel is moving so quickly through the filter, the media actually loads with particulate , the particulate is held in place by the moving fluid, pull the throttles back and shutting off the motors (no flow) the particulate falls to the bottom of the filter bowl.....

The VST as mentioned above could show the same characteristics.... FYI - there is a copper drain plug on the bottom of the VST tank. Aftert the boat is sitting for awhile it may be worth while to drain the fuel from this small resevior. If the boat was run without ten micron main filters, this area may have sludgy/dirty fuel.

It would be interesting to see what you come up with.

Tim

 

[jekyl]

Thanks guys i pulled the filters today ( the 10 micron ones)and they were both full of Cr....p and some water, both over 12 months old. Have the motors being serviced on friday .The filters on the mtrs look fine.

 

[Korona]

Be sure they check and clean the fuel filter inside the VST tank directly under the fuel pump in there. That's the one I didn't know about last year when my 2000 200HPDI wouldn't run right.