2003 F225 Twin O/Bs - MUST READ

[Lil Lucky]

Hey everyone - I just finished getting my O/Bs redone for the corrosion issue as well as replacing the oil pumps and crank sleeves. Like many, I'd assume it was hype over reality from a few disgruntled boaters going on all the forums to complain. Turns out, I was wrong. DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT MARINAS ARE TELLING YOU! For example, I'm in the NY area and have only a few marinas that I could go to for service. Al Grovers has been working on my motors since I bought the boat in early 2008. The guy before me was a doctor who gave me the listing of all the servicing done plus did a survey on the motors. I continued it as well by doing as much preventative maintenance as possible. Dante from Al Grover's told me he hasn't seen one motor with the issue when I last got serviced from him back last year in May and felt it was a myth. Eventually, during the season, I noticed the starboard motor has a very low smoke emitting out of it which made me worried. Therefore, I didn't use my boat that much out of worry. I hauled the boat this past winter so that I can lift the motors. Turns out, Dante's shop put too much oil in the starboard motor and hence why it smoked. When the mechanic dismantled the motors' midsections, powerheads, and lower unit, I actually felt somewhat relieved that I did the right thing. They were completely corroded. The oil pump seals were burnt. The wet part would be meeting the dry with the holes this year for sure. I take every precaution as well as use salt away in my flushing of the motors after each trip for 15 minutes each while I wash down the boat from a day's worth of fishing. There is nothing you can do. It's the composition of the metal Yamaha used which they had to change in 2005. While getting the work done on the motors, the mechanic told me I need new motor mount bolts which I got at the rip off K&K in Island Park NY who is a Yamaha dealer. Obviously, they swear there is nothing wrong with the motors and is strictly poor maintenance. Yamaha has stated that the fresh water flush needs to be done to avoid this. K&K said its due to thermostats not being replaced. I've changed them every year. They said "well marinas type up bills saying they did certain things, but don't actually do them". Get the parts on boats.net (the price for twins to replace the dry exhauts, oil pumps and crank sleeves totalled literally $2,000 almost to the penny, or $1,000 per motor in parts) I have a certified Yamaha guy who can work on your motors cheaper than anyone quoted out there. Al Grovers quoted me at $3,200 just to replace the dry exhaust, and didn't mention changing oil pumps and regular servicing which surely would have drove the labor around $5K I'm sure. The labor for both motors to replace all the parts and servicing (I supplied the service parts and lubricants) was $2,200. If you're in the NY area, I'd highly recommend him. I just don't want you guys stuck with this nonsense. DON'T LISTEN TO THE MARINAS! They would rather repower your boat!

 

[Doc Stressor]

You were lucky, actually. Most older Yamaha V6 4-strokes don't last 10 years before the corrosion problem causes issues.

It's well established that the dry exhaust system isn't affected by flushing. But the thermostat housing is. Apparently, if you flush a cold engine with the flush attachment rather than running the engine on muff or in a tub and letting it warm up, the freshwater doesn't get past the thermostats. The block flushes fine with the thermostats closed, but not enough water gets past the closed thermostats to flush out the housing. Yamaha has never fully 'fessed up to the corrosion problem, so they have the dealers blame improper maintenance.

On the other hand, 10 years of service is really all you might really expect on an engine used in saltwater. Corrosion is the typical cause of failure. Even on other engines, head gasket failure related to corrosion is the common cause of failure. Some engines last a lot longer. But that is more of a statistical issue than design.

 

[onoahimahi]

On the other hand, 10 years of service is really all you might really expect on an engine used in saltwater.

In the Northeast, we generally get a lot more than 10 years out of an outboard. Many 10-year-old outboards only have 500 hours on them up here. The boat I sold in 2013 had a 1990 Yamaha 225 that is still running strong and still has great compression.

(Edit) I thought about this overnight and released that most all the boats I have owned were already 10-years old when I bought them and were definitely more than 10 years old when I sold them with plenty of life still left in them. This is saltwater use and I am no maintenance fanatic. I do all the standard stuff but no Saltaway or any other secret sauce.

2006 E-tecs in 2013 - still look new at 8 years.
1990 Yamaha 225 in 2003 - still running strong after 24 years.
1988 Mercruiser in 2000 - still running strong when sold in 2003 (15 years) (but showing signs of external corrosion)
1988 Yamaha 115 in 1988 - still running strong when I sold it 2000 (12 years) but had a cracked lower-unit housing near the propeller and a sleeved shift shaft but was still being used years after I sold it.
1988 Mercruiser in 1993 - still running strong when sold in 1998 (10 years)
1982 Evinrude 175 in 1988 - still running strong when sold in 1993 (11 years)
1979 Mercury 75 in 85 - still perfect in 1988 (9 years)
1986 Mercury 2.2 bought new in 86 and still running strong in 2013 after almost 30 years...!


It is surprising that Yamaha never fessed up to this in any way. The scariest photos I have seen are on this thread:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... epair.html

and there was an interesting article here:

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/oct ... laints.asp

 

[Slacktime]

This is a well documented design defect with this vintage F225s. I had the cancer on mine last year after 600hours. There is an ongoing class action lawsuit against Yamaha for the systemic design defect. It is likely to happen to just about every motor made in the 03 -05 era.

 

[2006 Adventure 208]

Question ? My 225 is a 2006 model with 900+ hours that is used in salt water and fresh water. Should I be concerned ? Thanks for advice.

 

[Lil Lucky]

Question ? My 225 is a 2006 model with 900+ hours that is used in salt water and fresh water. Should I be concerned ? Thanks for advice.

Yes unfortunately - It is a delayed inevitable on later models but yes there are issues coming up now on newer models... the metal composition of the repair kit is the same as the newer O/Bs but is just a bandaid as the parts are still aluminum... being that you're in fresh water definitely delays this however

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

I read this entire thread and something odd strikes me. If the exhaust is dry and flushing has zero effect on the exhaust side corrosion, then why would running in saltwater or freshwater make a difference? Sure the engine burn fuel using good ole fresh salt air of the sea. So is this the source of the corrosive exhaust, the salty air?

Combustion of gasoline gives off a number of acidic by products that our catalytic converters essentially eat up or catalyze in our cars. even in vehicles though the catalytic comverter is down stream in the exhaust system and it makes no positive impact on the exhaust system In regards to corrosion. Boat motors dont have these so I am deducing here that it is by products of combustion itself are the cause of the exhaust side corrosion issues more so than being in freshwater? I am kind of slow here on this issue because folks say it is a saltwater issue and if you run in freshwater you should be fine. Then they say flushing does nothing to prevent this. So, what is the source of the corrosion other than using a material not suitable for the application? Why do ocean going motors see this failure more than river and lake motors?

I read these stories and it concerns me even though my motor is an 08 model. I have one motor to get me home safely if it craps out then I have problems. This is like worrying about if you could get cancer or heart disease because there is a family history of it but on your motor.

 

[L.R.]

I was told by a Very Reputable Yamaha Tech that it's the Alcohol in the Fuel,plus the Hot Exhaust creates the corrosion.Supposedly,it started with the 2002's in California as the Coast Guard started with the first ones and it was showing up.We didn't have the Corn Fuel in most States.California was the First? Yamaha had not designed the Exhaust for such a corrosive environment.He also told me ,there have been 5 part number changes to the Exhaust..And again.....This is what I was told...Mine was just barely starting....2005 F-225 with 185 hrs.I just bought the Boat in December....Price was cut $2K for the future repair....You could see a few very small white corrosion specs in the Exhaust...It sat for 3 months [Winter] as I cleaned it up..

Boat was Covered Lift kept since new,always flushed...At the end of the 3 months of sitting,I looked at the Exhaust again as I had left the Lower off..The corrosion was 10 times worse!!!The tiny white specs were now getting larger! I had the complete Engine gone thru.Plugs,Thermostats,Anodes,Timing Belt Link and Sync,Water Pump,Complete Exhaust ,You name it...it was done.$2800.00.

 

[max366]

I have twin 2004 F225s. Went out Sunday and the port engine wouldn't rev up like the stbd,so we went back in to the dock. Checked the oil and it was milky and about 2 " over the full mark. Upon further inspection, I found a hole in the block about 1 1/2" from the tstat housing. It was 1/4" x 1/8" and squirting water all over the engine. Talked to the local Yamaha service guy and he thinks the dreaded corrosion issue caused the oil pan to corrode and let water into the oil. He's not sure about the hole. Bringing it in on Friday to have it checked out but this will be an expensive repair- if it's repairable. I'd like my old OX66 2 strokes back!
I'll report back on the finding and perhaps it will help others.

 

[CKJR]

I have a pair of F225's and my port block also had corrosion behind thermostat that started from inside out. I saw white crusty area while changing thermostats 2 years back. started engine & saw the bubbling. I think the block corrosion was a manufacturing defect. i had to replace the block as well as both exhaust housings. blocks flushed every time used.