Have problems with the standard charger keeping up with draw when overnighting, Fischer genni running charger. At night we have the electronics on, spreader lights,nav lights,washdown, etc. When go to fire motors the radar shuts down when starting and have had no crank. Adjusted battery switches and got both fired. Anyone else with this issue and possible fix. Bigger amp charger??
330 express battery charger
- Thread starter Randy
- Start date
You should be OK. I would suggest checking the voltage with a digital VOM at the batteries when the charger is on and also after charging to see if:
a) the charger is delivering the correct voltage for a good charge
b) the batteries are holding the charge
I assume you have the water levels correct. When I run genny and turn on the charger, I read 14.2 or there abouts at the electronics buss based on the reading from my RD30. The nominal at rest voltage is a good indicator of charge. I don't have the chart handy (try google) but 12.7 is fully charged and 12.2 is roughly 50%.
a) the charger is delivering the correct voltage for a good charge
b) the batteries are holding the charge
I assume you have the water levels correct. When I run genny and turn on the charger, I read 14.2 or there abouts at the electronics buss based on the reading from my RD30. The nominal at rest voltage is a good indicator of charge. I don't have the chart handy (try google) but 12.7 is fully charged and 12.2 is roughly 50%.
You have more draw than your charger can supply. It's a decent load if the spreader lights (DC), pumps, and RADAR are all on.
I've had this problem on my 330 and on the 360. Here's the solution my electronics installer came up with and it works like a charm:
1. Installed an special surge protector for all of the electronics (Displays, dsm 300, etc...)
2. Installed a second battery charger. The stock charger charges one bank of batteries and the new charger charges the second bank.
Since I've done this I have had ZERO problems, no "Flicker" on the displays....Everything runs perfect...
Cost of fix "$900 including labor
Not having to worry about batteries at all: Priceless
1. Installed an special surge protector for all of the electronics (Displays, dsm 300, etc...)
2. Installed a second battery charger. The stock charger charges one bank of batteries and the new charger charges the second bank.
Since I've done this I have had ZERO problems, no "Flicker" on the displays....Everything runs perfect...
Cost of fix "$900 including labor
Not having to worry about batteries at all: Priceless
In other words you use you engine starting batteries to run your house loads? I would strongly advise against this. You should fully isolate your house and engine loads and NEVER tie them together except in an emergency, especially offshore.
My new battery set-up will not even allow me to bring an engine battery into the house circuit. It is fool, crew, and wife proof.
Page 8-24 of the online manual for a 2005 330 shows (very poorly) how your batteries are set-up with switches. I'm not sure but is there really no dedicated house bank? If it were my boat I would have already rewired the battery set-up. According to the book the port and starboard bank are a parallel set for each. I guess you have to be a mind reader to figure out how the house 50A is connected to a battery or a switch, so I can;t even offer much of a good solution. Let me know where the house 50A breaker connects and how. jh
My new battery set-up will not even allow me to bring an engine battery into the house circuit. It is fool, crew, and wife proof.
Page 8-24 of the online manual for a 2005 330 shows (very poorly) how your batteries are set-up with switches. I'm not sure but is there really no dedicated house bank? If it were my boat I would have already rewired the battery set-up. According to the book the port and starboard bank are a parallel set for each. I guess you have to be a mind reader to figure out how the house 50A is connected to a battery or a switch, so I can;t even offer much of a good solution. Let me know where the house 50A breaker connects and how. jh
Fishermanbb this can be more easily and cheaply accompished by moving your house and electroncis loads off the start banks. For engine charging use ACR's for the house bank. When I start my motors the ACR's are open and all my electronics are seperate from the start batteries. Once the start batteries are topped up from the alternators, the ACR's close and begin recharging the house battery. This is my BEP marine 717-100A set-up
What's the existing charger ampere rating ?
You didn't mention it, are you running a livewell pump continuous, also?
You didn't mention it, are you running a livewell pump continuous, also?
I believe on the 330 that the "House" load comes wired to the battery bank that starts the starboard engine and the port engine is on it's own bank. Proper procedure for using the switches would be having the starboard engine battery switch set to "1" and the port engine battery switch set to "2". This way if you drained the "House" bank you could always start both engines with the "port" bank.
I'm not an electrician, but removing the "House" from both starting circuits would seem to remove any need for a surge protector.....But, theoretically you could lose both banks.
However, the second charger is still needed because the stock house charger won't ever be able to keep up with todays electronics when fully loaded. I can't quote any numbers but I've seen the exact same problem with the last two boats under birtually identical conditions and it was solved with the second charger.
I'm not an electrician, but removing the "House" from both starting circuits would seem to remove any need for a surge protector.....But, theoretically you could lose both banks.
However, the second charger is still needed because the stock house charger won't ever be able to keep up with todays electronics when fully loaded. I can't quote any numbers but I've seen the exact same problem with the last two boats under birtually identical conditions and it was solved with the second charger.
Several of us on the board have pleaded with GW to rig a dedicated house bank on the larger boats. My 1997 272 was wired this way. The rationale is that folks are putting more entertainment type devices on the boat and require more amp hours when the engines are not running. Besides the danger of depleting the starting bank, deep cycle batteries are much better suited to this type usage.
I spoke to GW engineering last fall and they confirmed they are starting to hear this more and more and would be watching for the need. I suggest others who agree speak up at the boat shows and through other feedback channels. There are many advantages to a dedicated house bank but my main reason is the use of a good deep cycle since frequent discharge can damage cranking batteries. Note that dual purpose batteries are a compromise. Dedicated battery types are superior.
I spoke to GW engineering last fall and they confirmed they are starting to hear this more and more and would be watching for the need. I suggest others who agree speak up at the boat shows and through other feedback channels. There are many advantages to a dedicated house bank but my main reason is the use of a good deep cycle since frequent discharge can damage cranking batteries. Note that dual purpose batteries are a compromise. Dedicated battery types are superior.
They are exactly that, a compromise. There is no way a 60lb GRP 31 can match a deep cycle 4D that weighs in at 129lbs. I'm not sure what GW was thinking putting two batteries in parallel to make a larger bank. I'm sure the biggest comlaint that eliminated the house bank was the third switch and the confusion it makes in the circuit. My Marlin was factory wired, three banks, and three switches with 1, both, 2, off. Where is the 3 in the equation. It never made sense fro anyone but those who studied the schematic, and it was prone to leaving you stranded offshore. For less than $200 I bought my battery cluster and it solved all my problems. I seem to be pushing this on allot of threads, but as a EE, I really have not found any device with as many features in such a compact size that does so much as to literally impress the heck out of me every time I use it. No I dont work for BEP or affiliated with them in any way.
GW, has moved a step back IMO on the non dedicated House bank. Any battery guru will tell you a series 6V set is better than a parallel 12V set. jh
GW, has moved a step back IMO on the non dedicated House bank. Any battery guru will tell you a series 6V set is better than a parallel 12V set. jh
The problem with a 4D is it's size. On my Sailfish and from hearing about battery access in some Marlins, a 4D can be a PIA to get in and out. 2 group 31 or 2 golf card batteries are much easier to work with.
When I redo the power and install a house battery I'm probably going to go with BEP. It has good functionality and doesn't take up that much space.
When I redo the power and install a house battery I'm probably going to go with BEP. It has good functionality and doesn't take up that much space.
What happened to Randy?
Need also to know what the generator voltage or AC bus voltage was running at when it occurred. Was it OK, if he recalls.
Need also to know what the generator voltage or AC bus voltage was running at when it occurred. Was it OK, if he recalls.
Im here. can someone give me a simple explanation of what to do, no insult but Im not that smart!! Would a simple fix be going to a 40 amp charger? do not recall what the amps were at the buss. Dealer had thought that it was the charger,replaced it, did not change. said that the batteries were old, bought new in August 05, so changed them no better.
Randy, no sweat, at times I'm not sure - seems some are looking for the proverbial magic reset button behind the green door - to make it all go away (me too!).
No offense, I can't diagnose issue to offer a cost effective solution w/o some answers, my advise is best suited to DIYers.
Just some general info here then I'll move on -
Basically presuming the battery charger is powered from an adequate AC voltage source and is working properly, if you run more aux load than the charger is rated for, it takes it from the battery.
Two halogen spreader lights at 55W each will draw about 10A alone, so it can add up real fast. The intermittant washdown pump does not have much effect, as long at it's not on all the time.
Your charger rating will have to exceed the sum of all continuous loads on that particular battery so as not to take donw the battery.
Hope it gets straightened out!
No offense, I can't diagnose issue to offer a cost effective solution w/o some answers, my advise is best suited to DIYers.
Just some general info here then I'll move on -
Basically presuming the battery charger is powered from an adequate AC voltage source and is working properly, if you run more aux load than the charger is rated for, it takes it from the battery.
Two halogen spreader lights at 55W each will draw about 10A alone, so it can add up real fast. The intermittant washdown pump does not have much effect, as long at it's not on all the time.
Your charger rating will have to exceed the sum of all continuous loads on that particular battery so as not to take donw the battery.
Hope it gets straightened out!
Bob, Generator running the charger, forgot that the livewell is running too. My thoughts are that the standard charger is a 15 amp and by going to a 40 amp that it would out do the draw. On at the same time, radar,plotter,FM,cabin lites, nav lites,spreader lites,livewell, intermittent use, SW washdown, head, I know its a lot of draw but would 40 amp keep up or do I need a new idea?
It sounds like you don't have a seperate house battery. Depending upon space avaliable get a 4D, 2 group 31's or 2 6V cart batteries and wire that for your house system. If you're out ovenight a lot you don't want an easy mistake to leave you stranded or have to wait a while until the generator can charge a battery enough to start an engine. Also get a large charger with capacity greater than your load. If the generator is on overnight maybe get a set of 110 spreader lights to take off some of the DC load.
It's easy to spend other peoples money but it is safer that way.
It's easy to spend other peoples money but it is safer that way.
Like Grog said, but I don't know if all that load is on one battery, do you?
A 40A charger may make it just fine if all on one battery.
A livewell pump may be about 6-8 amps, same as washdown - have to just add up all the continuous loads per each manuf. instruction manual. If they give watts, divide it by 12. The radar is a big clip too.
When the generator is running, your AC bus voltage should be above 110V. Are there voltmeters on those buses? If so, AC? DC?
Always leave one fully charged battery unloaded during your nightlongs, this way it can be used to crank up the engines and bring the real battery chargers to life, presuming one battery can be used to start both, otherwise you need to leave one good battery for each engine, to be safe.
I also presume you want to start and go, not shut off the aux loads and wait for the generator to charge up a battery good enough to start.
I would not count on the generator to get my engines fired so I can't advise this one.
A 40A charger may make it just fine if all on one battery.
A livewell pump may be about 6-8 amps, same as washdown - have to just add up all the continuous loads per each manuf. instruction manual. If they give watts, divide it by 12. The radar is a big clip too.
When the generator is running, your AC bus voltage should be above 110V. Are there voltmeters on those buses? If so, AC? DC?
Always leave one fully charged battery unloaded during your nightlongs, this way it can be used to crank up the engines and bring the real battery chargers to life, presuming one battery can be used to start both, otherwise you need to leave one good battery for each engine, to be safe.
I also presume you want to start and go, not shut off the aux loads and wait for the generator to charge up a battery good enough to start.
I would not count on the generator to get my engines fired so I can't advise this one.
Charge
Guys I know this is an old topic but I was bored searching around on here and it totally applies to me. While overnighting my batteries get drained even though they are fully chraged before hand. However, I was told by my Grady mechanic that I could not run my battery charger while the battery switches were on......the only time I could run it was when the switches were off??? Am I missing something here, I see you guys saying that you are running your battery charger while offshore with batteries and accessories on......and charging them using the generator.....while all still on? Can I do this on my boat, did I maybe understand my mechanic wrong?
Guys I know this is an old topic but I was bored searching around on here and it totally applies to me. While overnighting my batteries get drained even though they are fully chraged before hand. However, I was told by my Grady mechanic that I could not run my battery charger while the battery switches were on......the only time I could run it was when the switches were off??? Am I missing something here, I see you guys saying that you are running your battery charger while offshore with batteries and accessories on......and charging them using the generator.....while all still on? Can I do this on my boat, did I maybe understand my mechanic wrong?
As long as the batteries are connected you can run the charger while the switches are on. What he might have been trying to say is do not remove your batteries and run off a charger at the dock. It will toast senstive electronics and some cheap chargers. jh
Alternately
1. He may be concerned with you unknowingly running your outboards while the generator is powering the charger also feeding the same batteries, the concern is the with the Yamaha electric system.
2. If you were to crank the motor while connected to the charger, may blow the charger fuse or worse, charger is not designed to crank motors.
I've done this in error with my 10/10 amp charger, but didn't have any problem. Since only at the dock, never ran the motor at more than idle speed until I realized charger was on - then switched it off.
3. He may be concerned with overcharging batteries since charger doesn't know when to cut out of absorption mode since auxiliaries are still on drawing load as if batteries still needs more time.
4. There is only so much expectation placed on owners, so that's why they have such rules at times.
If you can manage not starting/running your Yamahas while charger is on, then do it. If the batteries drink lots of water, this is a sign of overcharging, and subsequently don't last long, so be it.
If you screw up and wreck something like the Yamaha power system and it fails to develop voltage, don't blame anyone but yourself when you get the repair bill.
1. He may be concerned with you unknowingly running your outboards while the generator is powering the charger also feeding the same batteries, the concern is the with the Yamaha electric system.
2. If you were to crank the motor while connected to the charger, may blow the charger fuse or worse, charger is not designed to crank motors.
I've done this in error with my 10/10 amp charger, but didn't have any problem. Since only at the dock, never ran the motor at more than idle speed until I realized charger was on - then switched it off.
3. He may be concerned with overcharging batteries since charger doesn't know when to cut out of absorption mode since auxiliaries are still on drawing load as if batteries still needs more time.
4. There is only so much expectation placed on owners, so that's why they have such rules at times.
If you can manage not starting/running your Yamahas while charger is on, then do it. If the batteries drink lots of water, this is a sign of overcharging, and subsequently don't last long, so be it.
If you screw up and wreck something like the Yamaha power system and it fails to develop voltage, don't blame anyone but yourself when you get the repair bill.