Advice on raising scuppers?

Hookup1

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Don't bother. They won't drain "up". Lighter batteries or Atkin's diet! Too much weight aft.

You could replace the flappers each year so they seal better. They usually deform.
 
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DennisG01

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Don't bother. They won't drain "up".
Actually, I have see this happen. It was a sink drain and it was mounted even higher than Dan's cockpit drain - but spray was coming up along the side of the boat such that the bowl filled! I'm not saying it "will" happen, but it surely "can" happen.
 

Blaugrana

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I’m not following how the top of the scupper being a 1/4in below the deck is going to work.

Doesn’t that mean the water will sit between the 90degree cockpit drain and the scupper? My 90 degree elbow seems to be in line with the scupper (2000)
 

Hookup1

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Its not. Best you can hope for is flappers keep water out. Raising them up make matters worse.

Important rules of plumbing:

Gravity can be a bitch.
S**t flows down hill.
 
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glacierbaze

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I seriously doubt that 400 lbs of weight = 1 inch of displacement is a linear equation. My guess is that every inch of displacement would require a progressively higher weight. Most of us have seen the chart on how much water would flow through a one inch hole in your hull, and how dramatically it increases with every increment of depth below the surface. I'm pretty sure that same principle exerts a greater upward force on your hull, the deeper you try to push it down in the water.

But back to scuppers, which were obviously not designed by the top of the class in naval architecture. I had to remove and clean out my oil tank this week-end, and while I had it out, I replaced the scupper hose on that side. I'm not sure why it is a 1 1/2" ID hose, the volume of any fluid system, gravity or pressure, is determined by the SMALLEST opening in the entire system. In this case, the deck drain and the scupper outlet, which are considerably less than 1 1/2". Unless fluid dynamics dictates that for equal volume, flow is greater in a pipe that is half full than it is in a pipe that is full.
Scuppers may be okay for keeping your feet dry, but I would hate to have a wave on deck, and be waiting for their pitiful flow to keep me upright and afloat, especially if the deck got down close to water level, and the scuppers under water. We have had several accidents lately, I heard the CG responding to an overturned vessel while I was working on mine Saturday, and 2 guys are still missing from an overturned 35 footer found 3 miles outside the inlet last Tuesday. It got me to thinking what was the best way to get rid of a dangerous amount of water on deck?
Given my current set up, 2000gph aft(adding a second one the next time I have the live well out) and 1100gph forward bilge pumps, I think the best bet would be to remove the aft deck pie plate, and drain water to the bilge, perhaps in stages. My batteries sit at deck level under the jump seats. First, it would lower the COG and increase stability, and I know that my 2000 Rule will pump at least 20 times as fast as my scuppers will drain. I think that having back up deck drains, that pump directly overboard, using a live well pump, is a damn good idea on a blue water boat. I could do 2 on my boat in an afternoon for under $400.
I had a similar idea while replacing the scupper hose. That was to put a 1 1/2" reducer tee in the line, with a live well pump attached to the smaller outlet of the tee, pumping to a thru hull below the rub rail. That would suck water off a flooded deck many times faster than it would drain by gravity through the scuppers.
Food for thought.
 

leeccoll

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I "think" that if you took a wave over the deck you would still be OK. Maybe a high pulse though.
Remember there are the 2 drains in the cockpit on 228 as well as the transom. Not sure about other models, but I am confident the engineers at Grady provided for this contingency.
My 3" raised scuppers drain fine underway. IF I lost forward propulsion, I am guessing the "basic flotation" would be the last checkpoint, because all the scuppers would be below waterline.
 

SirGrady226

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I guess I'm a bit lost on this thread. How does the deck drain properly if the scuppers are raised?
 

leeccoll

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Sir Grady,
As long as the scuppers are below the deck, they have ability to drain.
When I am underway or on plane, they drain much faster. The angle at which the hose is to waterline is the key. Higher angle, quicker drain.
This is my 2 cents on my 228. My scuppers were buried underwater before, and actually made me a bit uncomfortable as water would back up on to my deck.
So for me was a good resolution. No more water on my deck ;)
 

glacierbaze

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Lee, a wave on the deck of a center console, or a bowrider, is not as bad because the deck is flat all the way forward. But dumping all that water into the cabin of a walkaround is another story. I could plug that one cabin drain with my finger, and it goes into the bilge anyway. Those 2 forward drains I would guess at closer to one gallon per minute than two.
 
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leeccoll

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GB (I prefer to call you Blaze, so let me know if that is OK), you are correct and agree, the only thing I know is as long as the boat is going forward in the right direction, the water will evacuate the deck. And lets not forget that the vessel is buoyant even when taking on water.

Would be great if someone had real world experience taking on massive water instead of my hypothetical guesses.
 

Don Davis

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I took some pictures of my project 228 before it had fuel or engines this past spring at our local lake as I was doing some trailer upgrades. I’m amazed how buoyant the hull is without the extra weight , here are pictures before and after, totally different look as expected.
 

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DennisG01

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Regarding water draining while moving and it draining "better"... keep in mind that the OP's drains are now on the side of the hull - which could affect this. While moving forward starts to create a "hole" behind the boat which would help drainage, there's a possibility that the sides of the boat, and subsequently the thru-hull drain fitting, could actually be submerged under the water as the aft end of the boat squats down. Also, I would expect the angle of the cockpit floor to have a much bigger impact on aft-mounted drains since it angles the drain hose downwards - whereas with a side-mounted drain, the angle of the hose does not change.
 
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leeccoll

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Regarding water draining while moving and it draining "better"... keep in mind that the OP's drains are now on the side of the hull - which could affect this. While moving forward starts to create a "hole" behind the boat which would help drainage, there's a possibility that the sides of the boat, and subsequently the thru-hull drain fitting, could actually be submerged under the water as the aft end of the boat squats down. Also, I would expect the angle of the cockpit floor to have a much bigger impact on aft-mounted drains since it angles the drain hose downwards - whereas with a side-mounted drain, the angle of the hose does not change.
Hey Dennis, I haven't lost your point. Hoping DanF will update us next spring.
 

seasick

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Not only as the boat squats but as she turns, it is possible that the side mounter drain might allow water to flow backwards. That said, since this approach is so radical, I have nothing to use as a comparison. I am interested on how it works out.
 

SirGrady226

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Sir Grady,
As long as the scuppers are below the deck, they have ability to drain.
When I am underway or on plane, they drain much faster. The angle at which the hose is to waterline is the key. Higher angle, quicker drain.
This is my 2 cents on my 228. My scuppers were buried underwater before, and actually made me a bit uncomfortable as water would back up on to my deck.
So for me was a good resolution. No more water on my deck ;)
On my 226 the scupper drains (4) are ever so slightly below my deck and have a little taper in the deck right in front of them. Obviously they can not be raised, so the type you are referring to probably are farther forward from the transom and have hoses running to the back scuppers. Picture is pre restoration.

20180223_165617.jpg
 

Holokai

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Not only as the boat squats but as she turns, it is possible that the side mounter drain might allow water to flow backwards. That said, since this approach is so radical, I have nothing to use as a comparison. I am interested on how it works out.

A lot of boats here have side-mounted drains; many also have a modified clamshell cover as shown in the picture that help with the backflow. Force boats are made locally and designed for rough water; I can confirm the design drains water fast enough to keep fishing on small craft advisory days. It should be noted that the construction of the hull is different and the scuppers are just cutouts in the hull whereas our Gradys have the hose/fittings so the same diameter scupper on a Force will drain faster.
 

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Lt.Mike

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You can't raise them any higher than the level of whatever they are draining. If you do, they won't drain correctly or at all.
If your scuppers are now submerged, something has changed: Either heavier motors or the hull got heavier and that is often due to a wet hull.
If the boat is from the mid nineties or earlier it’s more than likely been repowered and with a brand new outboard rather than rebuilding the engine it came with.
From 150 up you can bet the newer engines weigh in at about 100 lbs more than the carbureted dinosaur it replaced. Most of us would have also upgraded on the hp output and that would have added to the weight as well.
Mine has 470 lbs of 225 hanging on the back of my Overnighter and it’s scuppers are below the waterline too. I trailer it but I suppose if it were slipped 24/7 I’d be concerned about it too.
 

DennisG01

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Holokai, that's really an entirely different setup given there is no hose. I assume what you have there is similar to lobster-style boats I'm familiar with in Maine. It's basically just a hole in the side of the boat. The water "deflector" is different too - it's really just a deflector, right? Meaning, there's no "grate" to trap foreign material (leaves, etc)?