My 2002 150 hp Johnson 2 cycle outboard recommends using a HD25 oil. As an alternate, they recommend an NMMA TC-W3 oil. As the HD25 oil is hard to find in the Richmond area, along with the fact that it costs $ 25-$35 a gallon I am considering using the TC-W3. Johnson/Evinrude, Quicksilver, and Pennsoil TC-W3 all cost anywhere from $ 20 up to $ 35 a gallon also. However, I found some Supertech TC-W3 oil at Walmart for $ 11 a gallon. It has an NMMA TC-W3 rating and seems to be the same as the higher priced oils. Do I dare use the three times as inexpensive Supertech or am I looking at potential engine problems in the future if I do?
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Are all TC-W3 oils the same?
- Thread starter jdsmith
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LUNDINROOF
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I used the quicksilver in my Merc 2001 Optimax until it was no longer on warranty. After that I used the Wal-mart brand that met the TC-W3 specifications for 6 years and never had a problem. I usually put 150 + hours/year on the motor.
Strikezone
GreatGrady Captain
I have faithfully run Yamalube that I purchase for $18-20 per gallon from a Yamaha dealer using my own container. However, during the Christmas holidays the dealer was closed and I purchased the Walmart Supertech oil. My OX66 ran great and actually didn't smoke nearly as much as the Yamalube. I always add Ring Free to my gas so I'm not too concerned.
I'll continue to use the dealers Yamalube but won't hesitate to use the others as long as it is TC-W3 compliant.
I'll continue to use the dealers Yamalube but won't hesitate to use the others as long as it is TC-W3 compliant.
I don't know if there is a material difference but the more expensive Quicksilver oil says it is good for injected motors. The less expensive oil doesn't say that. I used the $25 Quicksilver last season and all seems OK. In the spring when I do my annual maintenance, I will see if anything looks different ( and that boils down to plugs mostly). I hate to overpay but I am wearry of $11 oil when most of the branded oils go for $20 to $30+ gal.
richie rich
Well-Known Member
This is a clip from Parker Yamaha regarding 2 cycle oils ......just food for thought:
Harold Tucker, lubricants technical director for Phillips Petroleum, rattles off statements like, Oil may be a mixture of clean-burning light solvent neutrals and bright stocks which protect against piston-skirt scuffing" as easily as some of the rest of us say, May I have some fries with that burger?" He goes on to say that bright stocks don't burn cleanly, and so are replaced in some oils by synthetic polymers which have similar anti scuff properties but don't leave residue when burned. Oil may also contain ash less dispersants, which help to prevent deposits and keep piston rings free.
What does TC-W3 mean?
Oils carrying the designation TC-W3 have been certified by the National Marine Manufacturers Association. TC means two-cycle (two-stroke). W means the oil is appropriate for water-cooled engines such as those found on personal watercraft and outboard boats. The 3 on the label means that it is a third-generation oil. The TC-W3 certification replaced the earlier designations TC-W and TC-WII, and indicates that the oil has passed additional testing procedures designed to exclude inferior oils. Oil which does not display this symbol may not have undergone these procedures or may have failed one or more tests.
How much difference is there among brands?
Any brand of oil should work in your engine as long as it meets the requirements for water-cooled two-stroke engines. However please check your owners manual for your specific vehicle.
"We all have different formulations, but I'm not aware of any oil that's poor quality," Lechien says. "There's good product out there and there's better product. It falls on the consumer to make a decision." Factors to consider include past experience and friends' recommendations, but keep in mind that problems blamed on oil are often due to improper maintenance and operation. Also, labels such as "high-performance" or "race oil" have no legal definition. You may want to ask a technical service representative to explain what's behind these claims.
Do I have to stick to a certain brand to keep my warranty in force?
Your owner's manual may recommend that you use the manufacturer's brand of oil, but it doesn't require you to do so. Although dealers may try to sell you a specific brand of oil, they cannot require you to use it. In fact, anyone who says you must use their oil to keep your warranty in force is violating federal law, unless they can prove to the Federal Trade Commission that no other brand of oil will work (which they can't) or they supply you with the oil for free (which they won't). As long as you use a properly certified oil, your warranty should be safe.
Harold Tucker, lubricants technical director for Phillips Petroleum, rattles off statements like, Oil may be a mixture of clean-burning light solvent neutrals and bright stocks which protect against piston-skirt scuffing" as easily as some of the rest of us say, May I have some fries with that burger?" He goes on to say that bright stocks don't burn cleanly, and so are replaced in some oils by synthetic polymers which have similar anti scuff properties but don't leave residue when burned. Oil may also contain ash less dispersants, which help to prevent deposits and keep piston rings free.
What does TC-W3 mean?
Oils carrying the designation TC-W3 have been certified by the National Marine Manufacturers Association. TC means two-cycle (two-stroke). W means the oil is appropriate for water-cooled engines such as those found on personal watercraft and outboard boats. The 3 on the label means that it is a third-generation oil. The TC-W3 certification replaced the earlier designations TC-W and TC-WII, and indicates that the oil has passed additional testing procedures designed to exclude inferior oils. Oil which does not display this symbol may not have undergone these procedures or may have failed one or more tests.
How much difference is there among brands?
Any brand of oil should work in your engine as long as it meets the requirements for water-cooled two-stroke engines. However please check your owners manual for your specific vehicle.
"We all have different formulations, but I'm not aware of any oil that's poor quality," Lechien says. "There's good product out there and there's better product. It falls on the consumer to make a decision." Factors to consider include past experience and friends' recommendations, but keep in mind that problems blamed on oil are often due to improper maintenance and operation. Also, labels such as "high-performance" or "race oil" have no legal definition. You may want to ask a technical service representative to explain what's behind these claims.
Do I have to stick to a certain brand to keep my warranty in force?
Your owner's manual may recommend that you use the manufacturer's brand of oil, but it doesn't require you to do so. Although dealers may try to sell you a specific brand of oil, they cannot require you to use it. In fact, anyone who says you must use their oil to keep your warranty in force is violating federal law, unless they can prove to the Federal Trade Commission that no other brand of oil will work (which they can't) or they supply you with the oil for free (which they won't). As long as you use a properly certified oil, your warranty should be safe.
BobP
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None of this means the motor will last as long if it had a higher quality, as in "refinement/additives", as one that didn't.
And secondly, while under warranty, once the dealer indentifies why the motor failed if it as associated with lubricant, you will be the one to prove what's in the oil system, not the dealer.
So if the motor fails under warranty and Yamaha challenges fault, you may want to consider using the OEM specified oil not any TCWIII to CYA, to avoid this. In the the case or Mercury Optimax, use the Optimax direct injection branded blend.
Same goes for oil in 4 stroke motors while under warranty.
No other oil I've seen is same color as Yamalube 2M. No proof needed !
And secondly, while under warranty, once the dealer indentifies why the motor failed if it as associated with lubricant, you will be the one to prove what's in the oil system, not the dealer.
So if the motor fails under warranty and Yamaha challenges fault, you may want to consider using the OEM specified oil not any TCWIII to CYA, to avoid this. In the the case or Mercury Optimax, use the Optimax direct injection branded blend.
Same goes for oil in 4 stroke motors while under warranty.
No other oil I've seen is same color as Yamalube 2M. No proof needed !
sfc2113
GreatGrady Captain
I would not use the walmart 2-stroke for anything but my dirt bikes, and lawn equipment. Use Johnson or yamalube oil for my outboards. I have been using yamalude and can tell you the smoke is much less than the johnson engine oil. and dont stink so bad either. Find a place that has 55gal drum and they will sell it for 11-12$ a gal to you. I got 5 gal for the year and it cost 80$ from a marina in Alt highlands, NJ.
Your engine will thank you. Like the other post, the yamalube is the drakest/ thickest 2-stoke oil I've seen.
Your engine will thank you. Like the other post, the yamalube is the drakest/ thickest 2-stoke oil I've seen.
GW VOYAGER
GreatGrady Captain
I bought my boat used last year and it had a gal of Mercury quicksilver oil left by the previous owner and I have been using the same ever since.
Does anyone recomend changing oils because I'm reading here that some smoke less than others.
I've also read post about ring free and it is mentioned using it in this post
should I use it in my 225hp Johnson.
Does anyone recomend changing oils because I'm reading here that some smoke less than others.
I've also read post about ring free and it is mentioned using it in this post
should I use it in my 225hp Johnson.
JUST-IN-TIME
Well-Known Member
DO not use the 25 oil, it gels up in cold
use the xd-50 or xd 100
if your motor is not under warranty, any water cooled 2 cycle oil will work
but if you pre mix, use premix oil
if you inject, use injection oil
big difference
use the xd-50 or xd 100
if your motor is not under warranty, any water cooled 2 cycle oil will work
but if you pre mix, use premix oil
if you inject, use injection oil
big difference
hotajax
GreatGrady Captain
BUYING BRANDED OIL
Check out:
domo-online.com
He has most of the popular oils for 2- and 4- stroke engines. I know he carries all varieties of Yamaha and Merc oils. Price is very good if you buy the case of gallons. Ships from Florida.
Check out:
domo-online.com
He has most of the popular oils for 2- and 4- stroke engines. I know he carries all varieties of Yamaha and Merc oils. Price is very good if you buy the case of gallons. Ships from Florida.