Attacked by Grady White bashers

Graybeard

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I took my Freedom 22 out in the Chesapeake Bay snot yesterday and had to battle some big rollers in a following sea to get to our destination and the short steep chop of a head sea on the way back. At the ramp everyone was in agreement I had a pretty boat but bashed me for GW's being overpriced and the ride of the SeaV2 hull. OMG!!! They said SeaV2 hulls are pounders and ride harder that advertised. I guess they were all experts??? But I just took it all in and didn't argue. There are posts on The Hull Truth that basically say the same thing. But they couldn't give me an example of a better riding boat in the 22' size range.
 

Doc Stressor

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I've been in quite a few different SV2 Gradys and I can understand where the poor ride reputation comes from. Some of the models will pound pretty bad with a head sea. I think the 33' cabin models ride poorly for a hull of that size class. But I'm comparing the ride to 32-35' go fast center console fishing boats. But a lot has to do with the weight distribution and knowing how to trim the hull properly.

On the other hand, the narrow 20' - 22' SV2 hulls ride about as well as any boat in that size class.

All Gradys are what I call slow hulls. They don't ride on top of a 2"-3" chop at high speed. Rather, they cut through the waves. They are very stable and safe at lower speeds even in seas that are bigger than you should ever be in.

All hulls are compromises of course. You get stability, storage, and creature comforts with a Grady. You sacrifice high speed performance for that. And that's fine with me.
 

Stonewall

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John,

Been there many times myself. Just smile and wave...smile and wave. You know there is a bit of jealousy in their hearts. (and a bit of ignorance)
 

Graybeard

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Well Doc S you seem to know your stuff all right. I've been impressed with your informative replys. A hull that cuts the short steep chop in the Chesapeake Bay works for me. It always seems to be snotty conditions whenever I want to use the boat. In the Bay it's not how fast you can go but more a matter of what conditions can you run fast.......and not beat yourself to death. The big ocean going battle wagon center consoles are not very popular in my sector of the Bay.
 

Legend

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I am on my third GW and have heard the overpriced stuff for years too. I have also seen many of these more sffordable boats virtually fall apart after a few years of use. Ny first was a 85 Seafarer and it looked almost new when I got a Gulfstream in 2004. My 2004 Sailfish looks brand new and we use it constantly. There is more to the price tag that has to be consider
Good luck
 

Graybeard

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Well part of the overpriced junk diatrib is both old & new GW hulls have delamination issues, the wiring is substandard non-marine wire and something else I can't Seem to recall. I forgot to ask about that stuff on my factory tour. I don't know how much of the Hull Truth is the truth and how much is BS??
 

wlewis

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I picked up my new Freedom 225 the same day as Graybeard. I've only used it a few times, but have learned the boat is very sensitive to trim tab and motor trim. The first time I took it out, I was quite disappointed in the ride. Having had a Gulfstream 23, I was used to a very heavy, stable ride at a bow high attitude. Running the 22 bow high, it was unstable and porpoised quite a bit, especially in chop. I've learned that lowering the bow, particularly in chop, substantially improves the ride. Now that I'm getting used to the trim tabs, I'm quite satisfied with the ride.
 

Graybeard

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Oh I've used my Freedom 225 quite a bit and I too had to figure out how to trim the boat for the best ride for the given sea conditions. Took some time but I think I got it figured it out. My old Parker 21 had bigger trim tabs than on GW and was very sdowtive to both the trim/tilt and trim tabs. I tried to trim the engine so the prop shaft was parrall to the water surface and used the tabs to trim the bow down to where I wanted it. I would love to have some bigger tab planes because I have to trim the engine too much for my liking. I told them that at the factory and they suggested one of those Dol-Fin's.
 

Curmudgeon

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I trim the motor for max RPM under conditions, then drop tabs for the ride, if needed at all. I did some comparisons and on my 22' the engine trim is what affects GPH the most. The vent plate (and the prop shaft underneath) is gonna be pretty much parallel to the water at cruise no matter what (go look sometime). A Doel on a new boat? Really? Did you ask to speak to someone with a clue? :huh
 

mboyatt

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Just ignore it - enough said. Are Gradys the best boats on the water? Who knows. But we have them and we love them. Screw the nay sayers. 8)
 

Shutterbug

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Still have my 87 Offshore. No delamination, original wiring, factory transom/stringers/bulkheads. I like to think it's a well built boat instead of me just being lucky.

The ride of my GW? I watch those in other types sail on by in seas that I have to throttle way back. Are they taking a pounding? Don't know but it doesn't look like it. Anyway I still safely get there. I've sailed on other GW"s that would rock you to sleep and a discontinued hull that scared me to death.

Price? I still believe you get what you pay for.

As previously stated "there is no perfect boat".

BTW Greybeard, what was your fuel guage problem?
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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Graybeard,
Maybe there is some truth what others say about price and ride? I do not know. Maybe Consumer Reports could be talked into doing a side by side objective ride test of boats in the same size and boat type one day. Until then, we are stuck with more subjective analysis at the tiki bar. Have you ever noticed though that nobody walks up to a guy with Bayliner and says hey it is better to have no boat at all than to have a Bayliner? Why, because nobody is envious of somebody with a Bayliner.

I run the same hull as you do but different model and the Seafarer rides pretty well for me. It is a bit wet when quartering head seas gets above 3 feet especially on windy days. I am glad I have my curtains then (lol). I suspect though with the right captain the boat could be run harder and faster than I am willing to go in bigger stuff. I am willing to bet the boat can take more than I can.

I know the reason why Grady includes trim tabs as a standard on the 22 hull without even asking them. It responds well to them and as for the size of the tab themselves they are fine ,like I said it responds well. I was at the Sundance Skiff factory a while back and took a tour there. They had a dealer in there from the Augusta, Ga area and the guy was ripping my boat, telling how terrible riding it was. I thought this was a strange way to get a sale by telling your potential buyer what a crummy boat they have. I told that guy I ran my 22 footer to the Bahamas and back and I find the ride to be solid. He shut up.

Speaking of the Bahamas I ran with a Express 330 and a guy with a Contender. The Contender guy told me more than once how impressed he was of my boat especially since it was 22 feet long and I was handling the same snotty seas he was in his 30 footer without a hick up. I have been in the Keys down off of Bahia Honda and Big Pine Key in Hawk Channel with 20 knot east winds and seas 3 to 4s. We stayed near shore to head to Newfound Harbor for a sandbar day and upon our return trip a similar size Sea Swirl walkaround and I were heading into the same seas ( head sea) and I was comfortable running around 18-20 and the Sea Swirl guy had to slow down significantly. He was getting pounded and wet, me not so much. I put those tabs down and trimmed the motor for optium speed and ride.

I could have pushed it faster but the Admiral was on board and she does not like to hear or feel the boat pound one bit. So based on my observation a 22 foot Grady walk around rides better than 22-24 Sea Swirl walkaround. I know this to be true because I saw it maybe 50-75 yards off my starboard side. Now that same boat is likely $20K less than Grady. On a flat day one could say I wasted my money and should have bought a Sea Swirl.

I bought a Grady for its looks, the quality of the build, and its ride. I did not buy it to impress the other guys at the ramp or tiki bar. Now with that said, I was in Hope Town last summer in the Abacos atop the Hope Town Light House. There was a guy there from Texas who was photographing his 110 foot yacht from atop the light house. He and I struck up a conversation and he asked about which boat was mine in the harbor. I searched around and then pointed below to the dock at the marina at the base of the light house. He asked if I truly crossed from Florida in that boat. I said yes sir. He then said you know Grady makes a very fine boat and you (meaning I), must be a fine sea captain. I said thank you on the Grady compliment and then I said I dont know if it is fine being fine captain or daring (lol). It was nice to hear the compliment from a multimillionare retired Texas banker with a 110 foot boat.

In the end, I suspect Grady, Boston Whaler and Pursuit all make a fine boat. They all have their ups and downs. I like my boat and it fishes pretty well, cruises pretty well and one day when I go to sell her, I will likely get more back than most other brands. If the guy at the ramp does not like it, nobody is making him buy one.
 

Graybeard

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Timely, today I took the wife, son, daughter in law and grand baby #1 on a boat ride across the Chesapeake Bay in 15knots of wind, a snotty following sea and cross wind. All you can eat crabs were our destination at a popular crab house. It was bumpy and a bit wet, but we made it there when a lot of boats stayed at the dock. The trip back was in a head sea with 15 knots of wind in our face. My Freedom 225 handled the head sae better than the following sea, but it may have been the skipper's handling of the following sea and not the hull design. No comments from the dock peanut gallery today !!
 

Graybeard

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SeaHunt???? I have a friend with a SeaHunt 24 and there's a few of them at the local marina. They look nice and the bow looks a little like a SeaV2, but they just don't campare. They don't like Boston Whalers on THT either.
 

Doc Stressor

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They like Sea Hunt, Cape Horn and Key West boats because they give a lot of value for the money. The argument against upper mid tier boats like Gradys, Whalers, etc. is that they don't. THT guys like top end semi-custom boats like Yellowfins. Unless they happen to own a Contender or a Regulator. :roll:

I can tell you as somebody who has owned 3 Gradys over the years that GW has come a long way in building fiberglass boats. My original 1975 Overnighter, which I bought new as a first year model, had all sorts of construction and design problems. But it really wasn't that far off the industry standards of those days. The wiring was a complete joke and had to be re-done every 3 years (before I myself learned about marine grade wiring and connectors), the cabin cracked at the door joint (they had a support bracket kit available the following year), the balance point of the boat was wrong (it took me several years to get that sort of figured out), and my transom only lasted 7 years because of the stupid aluminum cap design.

I liked the stability of the hull and walk around design, but I had pretty much sworn off Gradys when I was ready to replace that boat after 11 years. But the improvements in the 1986 Seafarer model were very significant. So I decided to go with the devil I knew. The hull was lighter, it handled great, and had a much drier ride in the Gulf chop. I liked the drop down splash well for access to the swim platform. I put a pair of livewells in the stern and converted the forward fuel tank area to a storage locker for scuba tanks. I loved that boat, but it certainly wasn't perfect. The wiring was laid out better, but they still didn't (and don't to this day) use high grade shrink connectors. The hull would pound in any chop over 2', but it could run just on plane as low as 15 mph once I put a fin on the anti-ventilation plate. On long runs we would use the autopilot and stand behind the seats to minimize the effects of the pounding.

I had to sell that boat when I moved out west for 17 years where aluminum boats were more practical. When I returned to Florida, I originally got a Key West (a lot of boat for the money), but it lacked both the fit and finish and ergonomics that I had gotten used to. So I started looking at Gradys and other similar boats. Thanks to some folks on this forum, I was able to go for rides in several Grady's and I decided that I had to go back full circle to where I was in 1986-90. I was able to find a brand new 2008 Seafarer in 2010 that had been sitting in a dealer's barn for 2 years because of the recession. I got it for a song.

The wiring and ergonomics of the newer Seafarer are an order of magnitude better than my earlier boat. They seem to have solved the wood rot problems by using different material and better encapsulation methods. The ride is as good or better than any 22' boat I've been in and I ride in a lot of boats. They can say what they want against wood stringers and a wood transom, but the ride is as solid as it can get. The handling characteristics are a bit quirky, but after I got the right prop and learned how to use the tabs correctly everything is just fine. I've been able to stay on plane in seas that caused a 26' World Cat and a 27' Fountain that I was running with to slow down.

So the question of whether or not a Grady or similar upper mid-tier boat is worth it comes down to "Would you rather drive a Chevy or a BMW". If they can afford it, most would opt for the BMW. Grady White has shown the same type of ergonomic refinement as the bimmer. Everything is right where it should be and everything works well. That's because GW pays attention to their owners and make their improvements over time.

I can understand how somebody who pays a lot of money for an older Grady that is starting to fall apart can become a Grady hater. Paying a lot less for a used Sea Hunt or Key West in the same condition doesn't cause the same pain.
 

Graybeard

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Thanks Doc,
there are 2 Sea Hunt Triton 232's at our local marina and I learned from one of the owners they are a family owned NC boat builder and they are a more bang for the buck boat. I was very interested in what you had to say about your experiences. My first boat was an entry level 20' CC and the fit and wiring was a joke. My next boat was a 21' more bang for the buck Parker WAC and it was High quality and built like a tank. My Freedom 225 is a You get what you pay for boat and it's good to hear from an experienced GW owner. Thanks
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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Doc, I recall back in the day Mako made a solid and respectable boat. Then in the 90s they went downhill when they became a big conglomerate boat company. Some boat builders improve over time while others slide. Funny Sea Hunt has been around for a fraction of the time that Grady has and they are a Grady Light - lol. For the money they are a decent boat and I wonder in 20 years looking back at today's Sea Hunts if they will hold up to the test of time. It says a lot when folks here are getting new to them Gradys from the 80s. Not many trailerable fiber glass boat companies can say the same about the number of boats built 30 years ago still in service inspite of their design flaws.
 

Robbinson

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I've been very happy with our Freedom 255. We boat off cape cod bay with varied conditions. I have found trimming the engine and using the trim tabs to be very effective for dealing with changing wind and seas. If I was looking for speed as a top priority, I would have looked at a different boat (although this boat moves with the 350 hp 4 stroke), but find the Grady White to be a perfect blend (for us) of quality, style, versatility and performance. Our local dealer has been great too -

Best,

Brian

Freedom 255