Battery Drain

Slipperhead

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Midlothian, Virginia
To cut to the chase, my batteries will be quite dead after a week of storage. I faithfully turn my Perko switch to OFF when I put her away. Either the switch isn't working properly or I have something open (or shorted). How would you troubleshoot a power drain? My guess is one of the bilge pumps is the culprit since I don't believe they are turned off when the Perko switch is operated. Which appliances are NOT isolated with the Perko switch?

In the meantime, I have installed a solar panel and battery "maintainer". It seems to help.

Thanks in advance,

Garland Hanson
Midlothian, VA
 

aa331

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2010
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Model
Canyon 306
Same thing happens to me but over a month or so. Used to pull all 3 fuses (2 bilge pumps + "accessory") when the boat is on the trailer. After a while I tried pulling only the "accessory" fuse and figured out that was the culprit. Not sure exactly what's drawing power yet, but at least for now I'm good.
 

Slipperhead

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Midlothian, Virginia
Does anyone know which circuits/appliances are wired directly to the battery and not through the master switch? I'm guessing bilge pumps only? I will check but I don't think any of my accessories work when the master switch is off.

Thanks,

Garland
 

Tuna Man

GreatGrady Captain
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Messages
536
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Location
Rahway/Waretown NJ
If you own or can borrow a DC amp meter you can locate the culprit pretty easily if there is a constant draw. The amp meter will detect a draw on the offending wire (you must check each wire individually). I'm also guessing bilge pump, but I've seen some transducers wired so they are powered all the time also (not sure why). You can check the owners manual online and go over the original wiring diagram, this may be the best place to start.
 

seasick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
9,161
Reaction score
1,317
Points
113
Location
NYC
Slipperhead said:
Does anyone know which circuits/appliances are wired directly to the battery and not through the master switch? I'm guessing bilge pumps only? I will check but I don't think any of my accessories work when the master switch is off.

Thanks,

Garland
Turn off the battery switch and try everything, stereo, VHF, FF , plotter, lights etc. None of those should operate.
In theory, the bilge pump should be connected to only one battery.
Do you have a charger connected??
It is also possible that the batteries are in need of replacement. That is easy to check: Disconnect the ground connections at both batteries. Make sure you know what goes where for later reconnection.
Wait a week, reconnect and if the batteries are dead, you need new batteries.
 

uncljohn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
419
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Check to see if you have the non-float switch/non-mercury float bilge pumps that cycle on every 10 minutes to sense if water is present. I got one of them and it would drain my battery after a few weeks in the slip.
 

Capt Bill

GreatGrady Captain
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
805
Reaction score
45
Points
28
Location
First State
Model
Sailfish
How old are the batteries? If you can take them to an auto center, you could have them perform a load-test, to determine the condition (capacity to hold a charge). They may be at EOL.

The automatic-cycle bilge-pump, as mentioned, is a possible culprit. Could be someone wired a radio directly to the batts. You could always remove the wires from the battery post, while it is sitting on the trailer, and see if they still discharge, but I would do the load test. BTW, Harbor Freight has a load tester that is pretty inexpensive: http://www.harborfreight.com/500-amp-ca ... 91129.html

Combined with their 20% off any one item, and it's out the door for $40.
 

aa331

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2010
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Model
Canyon 306
Just remembered, my Yamaha FMS and related gauges (fuel consumption rate, boat speed, fuel tank level) do not power up if I pull the "accessory" fuse directly connected to the battery (port motor key also has to be on for them to work). Not sure if this is a common / accepted setup, but for now I'm not touching it.

Also I don't know if there's anything else on that circuit that draws current.

I think I've looked at Grady schematics and it states that circuit is to be used for VHF radio and the like.
 

Fishshoreman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
90
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Age
57
Location
Fairless Hills, Pa / SEA ISLE CITY, NJ
How about a short in the power trim system? Is it wired directly to the battery? It shouldn't be but who knows what others have done. I would also check GPS antenna. If wired directly to the battery or through a hot lead it will draw the battery down in a hurry.

Ed
 

seasick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
9,161
Reaction score
1,317
Points
113
Location
NYC
aa331 said:
Just remembered, my Yamaha FMS and related gauges (fuel consumption rate, boat speed, fuel tank level) do not power up if I pull the "accessory" fuse directly connected to the battery (port motor key also has to be on for them to work). Not sure if this is a common / accepted setup, but for now I'm not touching it.

Also I don't know if there's anything else on that circuit that draws current.

I think I've looked at Grady schematics and it states that circuit is to be used for VHF radio and the like.
You got it. It's not wired correctly. Accesory feed should be after the battery switch and not directly connected to the battery. I would bet that other devices are also on that feed
 

Slipperhead

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Midlothian, Virginia
The batteries are brand new! Hopefully the 50W solar panel feeding the battery maintainer has kept them charged in my absence. (My solar setup is new.)

My plan is to keep the Perko switch OFF, remove each of the positive cables from the batteries and reattach each of them one by one with my amp meter inline to see which one(s) are drawing current.

Hopefully, this will be the beginning to the end of this nagging issue. I'm getting tired of using a battery charger BEFORE each trip and wondering if the boat will start if I turn off the key....

I have a couple other items that I need to get straightened out but I need to get this one solved first!

Garland
 

1st grady

GreatGrady Captain
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
537
Reaction score
3
Points
18
Same problem here in the spring. I found the overhead E-Box had two power wires. One was direct from a battery (fused near the battery) and ran directly to the VHF( not switched). I found the VHF drawing .06 A the entire time. I rewired the VHF to the second power feed which is switched on/off by the Perko. No problems now. I battled this for 2 seasons thinking is was bad batteries.
 

ROBERTH

GreatGrady Captain
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
1,304
Reaction score
120
Points
63
Location
Raleigh, NC
Model
Sailfish
Just got my 252G earlier this year and the batteries seemed to be draining down. I did the load test and found them to be bad and figured this was my issue. Replaced with new. Found that both bilge float switches were bad and both fuses were blown. Replaced both floats and fuses. All good on the bilges now, but noticed some weird wiring on the forward bilge. Later, pulled up the floor panel to get in and see what was going on as it was not working properly with the switch. Seems someone had rewired so I had to redo back to factory. But, one thing I did find was a live wire sitting in the water, both ground and hot and thought that might be the culprit to lowering the charge in my battery. So far, in last few weeks since I fixed this, I have not had to keep the chargers on the boat connected. I think that was causing my slow drain. Check to make sure no wires are sitting in any water down below. If they are, they could be compromised and causing a slight drain. Time will tell if my problem persists.
 

Slipperhead

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Midlothian, Virginia
I didn't have much time to mess with it the other day but I did check my rear bilge pump and float switch. The switch worked perfectly. I will check the forward one tomorrow morning as well troubleshoot the fusebox and items connected directly to the battery. Both batteries were low on water.

I'm going to launch tomorrow morning and cruise and fish long enough to charge both batteries then do some more checking. Hope to fish 3 days before I have to re-trailer.

Garland
 

Slipperhead

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Midlothian, Virginia
I tested all my circuits yesterday and have found two of the three cables attached to my battery to have current flowing with my Perko switch off. I find no accessories that are run directly to the battery.

How can I test to ensure the two cables are indeed powering the bilge pumps? Remember, they can also be run manually from a switch.

Once I confirm the bilge pumps are wired directly to the battery, what is the fix? Should be float switches be replaced or can they be serviced? I have the blue Sure Bail switches.

Thanks,

Garland
 

alashley

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Wilmington, NC
This too is a problem I had on my 282 Sailfish on the 2 battery bank. I'll go through the search process and you can see if there
are any similarities. Talked to the local service manager (Scott) before proceeding and got ideas from him. I replaced batteries
(under warranty) first thinking that was the problem and the problem continued. The troubleshooting got serious after that.
Removed and cleaned corrosion off the buss bars. I even disassembled and cleaned the main buss bar and lugs in the battery compartment. Having a Dremel tool and brushes makes polishing easier.
1. There are a multitude of miscellaneous wires attached to the positive terminals of each battery. They skinny ones power
all the accessories or buss bars around the boat. The first step is to try and identify which is which. Most have factory labels,
you just have to interpret the rest. All was done with the battery switches in the OFF position.
2. The bilge pump/float switch was the first place to start. We took it out, cleaned, reinstalled and it works.
3. The next number 8 size wire was for the windlass. Disconnected it from the battery and put a multimeter between it
and the battery positive terminal and looked for a power draw. Got a .2 reading. While this is nomimal, Scott said it is
enough to draw down the battery if not used for an extended time. Solved this by putting a lug on the battery that had
a screw terminal and now just hook up the windlass cable when it is needed. This is a PIA but it does solve the small drain
problem. This does not solve the original problem, but it is a fix.
4. In tracing the other wires, found 2 more that were HOT when the switches were OFF. As previously mentioned, one
traced to the overhead radio box and was not hooked to anything. Solution: disconnected it from the battery. Was not
using it anyway.
5. The second wire was more interesting. It traced to the AM/FM stereo on the cabin. It was separate from stereo and the
purpose was to remember the pre-sets on the stereo when battery power was turned off. This was drawing about .5A even
though the stereo had been removed. The wire ran from a positive terminal over to the 10A push-button breaker on the
switch panel and back into the cable runs on the boat. It was a pain to trace. Solution: disconnect from battery. Also
replaced the 10A breaker since I had the panel off.
6. The fourth possible drain, and the most probable, was the battery charger. There are cables coming out of the charger
that span both batteries. There was a nomimal power drain (.3A) showing. Scott said if corrosion forms inside the charger, then
it can start a drain on the batteries. The charger is connected to the shore power. I don't use/don't need it. The engine alternators
do the job. Solution: disconnect the 3 wires from the charger.
7. All together, these 4 problems were doing enough to cause the batteries to drop from 11.90 volts at the end of the day
to under 8 volts in a week. The engines would not turn over.
8. A multineter is your friend and knowing how to read one is important. It can show small power draws and makes
checking continuity a breeze.
These are the problems I had and the solutions. I only disconnected cables that were not being used. All other wiring was
checked for nominal voltage drains and was found to be zero.
I have learned more about the wiring on the boat than I care to know. The problems do show that small things can ADD UP
to cause a major problem.
Good luck.
 

seasick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
9,161
Reaction score
1,317
Points
113
Location
NYC
All of the preceding makes sense to me except the windlass issue. Why would it draw current when not in use. Did you have an automatic leveler device or a wireless remote control?

One point about the bilge pump. The electronic sensing pumps can run down a battery since they cycle every few minutes. I don't like them at all.
The old float type switch units should not draw any standby current.

Good luck with your testing
 

freddy063

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
566
Reaction score
31
Points
28
Location
Maine
for what it is worth, I found that it is best to use a cheap tester , the ones that have the sharp point, a 12 volt light blub, wire and a clip. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... 5776_15776 remove the Neg battery cable,and put the tester in line ,clip on neg battery post and sharp end on cable. if the blub lights you have current and a draw. start removing fuses till the blub gos out, that will tell you what line haves the trouble, if the blub doesn't light then it's good. the bilge pumps might be wired to the hot side of the switches there are fuses in water prof covers that might look like this one. http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse. ... 26910.html
 

GW VOYAGER

GreatGrady Captain
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
300
Reaction score
11
Points
18
Location
Bainbridge Ga.
I don't know much about the Perko switch but I thought in the off posistion no current would pass to the field side "simply stated not the battery side of the switch".
I would think that if you have battery drain there would have to be somthing hooked directly to the battery and not through the Perko switch. Another thing is take the cover off the Perko switch and see if a circuit is hooked up on the hot side of the switch. In other words on the battery feed side of the switch and not on the outfeed side of the switch. If so you should be able to I.D. the circuit draining the battery.