Boat Prices (Ft. Lauderdale International Boat Show)

[islandfly]

Just a brief report from the recent show in late October. Prices seem to have come down some especially in the larger vessels. Spoke to several dealers and they mentioned that sales were bad on large vessels (30 ') and up. But smaller (20' -30') were starting to move. Most dealers did say that they are not moving vessels overall and it is a buyers market.

Considering the economic times we are facing I think dealers are going to make some drastic changes to their pricing and financing options if they are going to sell anything. What do you guys think?

Very few folks are willing to drop $ 200K and more on a vessel when their homes, jobs, and 401K are in jeapordy. I might be wrong, but here in Florida new boats are not moving.

Capt. R. Reyes
Someday Came Charters
Indian Rcks. Bch Florida

 

[capt chris]

There is no question that the new boat business is very difficult right now. I spoke to my GW dealer the other day and they have lost one salesman and have another working part time. He said they only sold 2 new Gradys all last year. There is no doubt that a boat is a "postponable" purchase and no one is very optimistic right now. Most boat maufacturers are privately held so it's tough to get an idea of how tough things really are, but I know Brunswick has made major changes including closing some plants permanently, furloughing other plants, consolidating production with other plants, discontinuing brands, and other cost cutting measures. I think it is fair to say that some manufacturers and many dealers will not survive this recession. Everyone will have to be incredibly creative to weather this storm as I expect it to last from 18 months to two years. I just wish all involved the best of luck and we will get through this, although it will be very painful in the interim.

 

[Fishtales]

I agree with Chris, we are in for a bumpy ride. The first half of 09 will tell us if this is a 12 or 24 or longer play. These are difficult times not only economically, but mentally for people. Somevdown 40-50% in the market and 401Ks, the housing crash eliminating the ability to pull out equity and the instability in the economy. People are on the bubble or feel that they are a lot closer to it.

Boat sales have to be real slow for everyone and the margins must be much lower on the ones that are sold. It will be tough for many dealers to ride this out without other strong components (service, dockage, winterization/storage etc). They not only have to get creative, they need to adjust their cost structures and have a little luck to boot.

My marina held dockage flat to last year - if you locked in now and I've heard a few places have lowered. They are nervous as well, not sure what percentage of customers will return.

Lets face it, these are expendable adult toys that can be the first thing to cut back, restrict or eliminate. Must be scary times indeed if your livelihood is tied to them.

 

[megabytes]

Agree with Danny and others - times are tough and will get worse. Our marina has rental vacancies and slips for sale which have not closed. Two years ago there was a waiting list for buyers or renters. I am told the problem is lack of financing.

I still feel that owners will be much better off down the road. When economic conditions improve the limited number of slips will drive prices back up.

 

[Tashmoo]

I was in Edenton, NC at the beginning of November and was told that Albemarle and Marine Regulator are both closed through the end of the year. Driving past the Albemarle factory it is like a ghost town. Carolina Classic was open and running as were the two refurbishing shops and the builder that has the Buddy Davis CC design, nice boat by the way.

In a town where you ether farm, retire or build boats you can imagine the impact when the two largest factories close down for any period of time, it effects everyone in the community. This is where innocent people get hurt. The bankers and brokers on Wall Street, I hope they lose everything they deserve it. But when the little guy that goes to work every day to make a living gets laid off because some greedy dirt bag had to have more, that’s what torques me. Let’s all hope the laxative that the credit markets were given kicks in soon and that the Wall Street types are in the toilet bowl when it does.

 

[3gulls]

I am doing a sea trial of a new Advance 257 just before Christmas at a Florida dealer. I was going to buy at 27 but backed down in size due to the economy. Every time I think I am ready to do the trade the economy dives again so I hold off. I know it drives the dealers crazy but in this economy you don't want to feel like an idiot buying now and the boat is 20% cheaper in a couple months. I feel sorry for the GW dealers - would not want to be one at this point in the cycle.

 

[Grog]

The marina was at raised prices for next year. The new place is not much more $ but 40 min to 1+ hours less time to the ocean (yes a real PIA whe you have to work the next day).

I wouldn't say 401K's are in jeopardy. All the bleeding isn't done yet but things have a cycle. If you live on the edge when times are good, when things turn, you're in deep ____. Nothing is going to change for the better until next year. On the good side there's rumors of more orders coming next year so the bottom may not be that far away.

If you're watching $, with the prices of used boats so low why are you buying new? A new boat is $200K where a similar used model is $100K. If the boating companies don't change during these times they will not be around much longer. I am a little shocked Grady wasn't doing rehabs of older models, they're already set up for it.

 

[HDGWJOE]

Just a brief report from the recent show in late October. Prices seem to have come down some especially in the larger vessels. Spoke to several dealers and they mentioned that sales were bad on large vessels (30 ') and up. But smaller (20' -30') were starting to move. Most dealers did say that they are not moving vessels overall and it is a buyers market.

Considering the economic times we are facing I think dealers are going to make some drastic changes to their pricing and financing options if they are going to sell anything. What do you guys think?

Very few folks are willing to drop $ 200K and more on a vessel when their homes, jobs, and 401K are in jeapordy. I might be wrong, but here in Florida new boats are not moving.

Capt. R. Reyes
Someday Came Charters
Indian Rcks. Bch Florida

Based on what I saw at the NY Show this week this assessment has to be pretty accurate. I don't know how they are going to survive in this economy. On top of that "60 Minutes" this past week had a report on a second wave of housing market foreclosures about to hit that will be larger than the sub-prime fiasco. Here's the report, hopefully(not likely) it's wrong:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4668112n

 

[capt chris]

Just a brief report from the recent show in late October. Prices seem to have come down some especially in the larger vessels. Spoke to several dealers and they mentioned that sales were bad on large vessels (30 ') and up. But smaller (20' -30') were starting to move. Most dealers did say that they are not moving vessels overall and it is a buyers market.

Considering the economic times we are facing I think dealers are going to make some drastic changes to their pricing and financing options if they are going to sell anything. What do you guys think?

Very few folks are willing to drop $ 200K and more on a vessel when their homes, jobs, and 401K are in jeapordy. I might be wrong, but here in Florida new boats are not moving.

Capt. R. Reyes
Someday Came Charters
Indian Rcks. Bch Florida

Based on what I saw at the NY Show this week this assessment has to be pretty accurate. I don't know how they are going to survive in this economy. On top of that "60 Minutes" this past week had a report on a second wave of housing market foreclosures about to hit that will be larger than the sub-prime fiasco. Here's the report, hopefully(not likely) it's wrong:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4668112n

Joe,
As a CFP® and someone actively involved as a retail stockbroker daily, let me tell you that the 60 Minutes report is not news to the market. In their usual sensational way, 60 Minutes tried to make the Alt A and Option ARM situation sound like breaking news. Believe me we have been dealing with the effects of both in the market place for quite some time now. The thing that is amazing is what did the lenders expect people to do when they offered them the option of only making a "minimum" payment which neither covered interest let alone principal? These lenders are the same ones who have years of experience getting their credit card customers into terrible debt by allowing them to only make a "minimum" payment which neither covered interest or principal. They knew from years of experience what consumers would do when given the easy way out. People conned themselves into thinking they would make it up next month. Well next month is here. Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm not minimizing the disaster that loaning mortgage money to non qualified borrowers has caused, but rest assured we will get through this. The unfortunate truth is that everybody is not financially able to own a home.

 

[capt chris]

Just a brief report from the recent show in late October. Prices seem to have come down some especially in the larger vessels. Spoke to several dealers and they mentioned that sales were bad on large vessels (30 ') and up. But smaller (20' -30') were starting to move. Most dealers did say that they are not moving vessels overall and it is a buyers market.

Considering the economic times we are facing I think dealers are going to make some drastic changes to their pricing and financing options if they are going to sell anything. What do you guys think?

Very few folks are willing to drop $ 200K and more on a vessel when their homes, jobs, and 401K are in jeapordy. I might be wrong, but here in Florida new boats are not moving.

Capt. R. Reyes
Someday Came Charters
Indian Rcks. Bch Florida

Based on what I saw at the NY Show this week this assessment has to be pretty accurate. I don't know how they are going to survive in this economy. On top of that "60 Minutes" this past week had a report on a second wave of housing market foreclosures about to hit that will be larger than the sub-prime fiasco. Here's the report, hopefully(not likely) it's wrong:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4668112n

Joe,
As a CFP® and someone actively involved as a retail stockbroker daily, let me tell you that the 60 Minutes report is not news to the market. In their usual sensational way, 60 Minutes tried to make the Alt A and Option ARM situation sound like breaking news. Believe me we have been dealing with the effects of both in the market place for quite some time now. The thing that is amazing is what did the lenders expect people to do when they offered them the option of only making a "minimum" payment which neither covered interest let alone principal? These lenders are the same ones who have years of experience getting their credit card customers into terrible debt by allowing them to only make a "minimum" payment which neither covered interest or principal. They knew from years of experience what consumers would do when given the easy way out. People conned themselves into thinking they would make it up next month. Well next month is here. Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm not minimizing the disaster that loaning mortgage money to non qualified borrowers has caused, but rest assured we will get through this. The unfortunate truth is that everybody is not financially able to own a home.

 

[Grog]

Not really on the same topic, but there was a comercial last night to borrow up to 97% of your homes equity. So we bail out these ____ and they do the same stuff all over again! That's what you get when you bail them out and don't change anything.

 

[HDGWJOE]

Capt Chris... thanks for the info... makes me feel a little better. Amazing what greed does to the thought process of many people.