Express 360 vs 330 - would love the input

[NIRDOC]

Thank you in advance for considering my post. I'm relatively new to the boating world (last 4 yrs).

In short, I'm considering a 330 vs 360. I live in the northwest (Seattle area) and would like a boat that I can use for both day outings (lots of crabbing and salmon fishing), but also have the option to take on longer trips up the coast. Speaking with the dealer here (so far my experience has been excellent), he states that the popularity of the 330 to the 360 is at least 10 to 1. His reasons are that the 360 is a much more "complex boat" compared with the 330 and that day to day use is more difficult/advanced. He sited many other reasons (i.e 330 can be pulled out on a trailer whereas the 360 can't, 360 more difficult to get around in marinas, significantly more maintenance and costs with 360, etc.).

How much of this is actually true vs salesmanship? He happens to have a 330 in stock that I'm sure he would love to sell - Nice boat with twin 350's (~400hrs) and all the fixin's. Supposedly it was used as a "dingy" for a very wealthy individual who took his mega yacht up to Alaska. They used the 330 for their daily outings and fishing.

So, I would love some input from those of you with experience on these models. Is what he saying reasonable? I live 4 minutes from the marina and 90+% of its use would be daily outings. The rest would be 2-3 day outings and maybe 1 or 2 week long trips/yr. My wife and I have two children (ages 11 and 8) and an occasional mother -in -law. Would the 330 really be more practical? Also, this would be my first "big boat" and therefore, should one start with something like the 330, or does it really matter?

I appreciate your input.

 

[striped bass]

Doc:
Both are a lot of boat. The 330 with "all the fixin's" will not be that dissimilar in complexity to the 360 IMHO. Three Yamahas may be the norm for a 360 which may be the biggest complexity differentiator. You didn't mention your last boat which would be helpful in proffering advice on the suitability of the 330/360. Do yourself a big favor and sea trail both hulls and you will gain a lot more insight into the suitability of each hull for your intended use. A boater with only four years experience under his belt will find both of these vessels a handful. All that being said, bigger is usually better especially in your case in the Pacific Northwest with wife, children and in-laws on board. There is a lot to consider in a boat of either size so please take your time and assess each very carefully. I suspect that the salesman is, in fact, trying to move the 330 so you need to move on to a more objective playing field for advice. Congrats in advance on being able to get such a lovely Grady White such as a 330 or 360. You will love it.

Don't forget to keep us posted on your progress and post LOTS of pics.

 

[townvet]

Ok, so let me start by saying that I am very biased in my advice having just purchased a 360. To me it is my dream boat in every way shape and form. I have a few more years boating experience than you but not a ton. I moved up from a 23 Gulfstream to a 336 Canyon and now to the 360 over 2 seasons. The learning curve is steep but what better way than just getting behind the wheel and learning.
For my family the 360 was the only option as I have three kids. The sleeping on the 360 will be 2 in the V birth 1 on the dinette and 2 in the aft cabin. The 330 just did not provide the room. The handling of the 360 on the water was impressive. I tested one with twin 350's and it was peppy. Mine has triple 300's and I have yet to start her in the water...I will let you know. I expect more pep from the less weight and similar performance. The 330 is a lot of boat to be trailering...I leave the hauling and storage to the pros no matter what so that was a non factor.

I think you are faced with the choice between a great boat and a great boat. A good place to be. Have fun with the decision.

 

[NIRDOC]

Thanks to both replys. Very helpful.

As for my previous boat, 24ft regal. I know it's probably a big jump up to either boat, but regals aren't that great for fishing/crabbing.

I was envisioning the sleeping arrangement as: Wife in the aft, me in the v-birth, kids on the dinette, and mother -in -law on the back deck.

So it sounds like there really isn't a big difference in "complexity" between the two as the dealer would like me to think.

 

[striped bass]

Doc:

Your comment is correct. There is not a lot of complexity difference. What you will discover is the difference in size and comfort the 360 offers with the large family you have in tow. I repeat, bigger is better in your case so if you make the jump the 360 is the way to go. Again, sea trial these hulls before you make the jump. Your 24 foot Regal is definitely too small for you and your family so you are on the right track for a GW of this size. The 360 now comes with a hard top option which may be a consideration for you and your family. As a side note, if you buy new or can find a used 360 my recommendation is for the Yamaha F350s. The F350 is a proven engine and you will appreciate the power to get you and your family to where you want to go especially when the weather turns snotty. The one difference we haven't discussed is the jump in maintenance expense from your Regal 24 to a 30 foot plus vessel. Skip the GW sales office and stop by the Grady White maintenance and repair department at your dealership and inquire about the upkeep cost. The equipment on these bigger GW (or any large) boats is extensive (gen sets, macerators, radar, marine electronics, batteries, pumps and electric motors of all kinds) as well the Yamaha engines. For example, ask the GW maintenance department the cost of an oil change on an F350. Another item is the F350 1000 hour required preventative maintenance warranty service cost. Ask how they access the marine equipment under the cockpit deck, i.e. do they use the removable inspection ports or is it necessary to cut the large deck panels out $$$ for access.

Keep us posted on your journey. We have all been there and look forward to reading about the quest.

 

[NIRDOC]

Great input. Many thanks. I've been told by some to expect spending ~7-10%/yr of the value of the boat for all costs (everything). Seems a little high, but I will certainly take your advice regarding the service costs.

You mention the 350. Any comments on the need for triple vs dual? 700 hp seem like a lot (enough?) Worth the extra expense? Even more more important for northwest waters?

 

[striped bass]

Excellent question. There is no one answer on two versus three F350s for a GW 360. The answer depends a lot on personal preference, intended useage, boating scenarios and cost. Please note that all the GW brochures and sales literature show the 360 with two F350s which is a strong hint right there. Personally, I think that 700 HP is more than enough power. My suggestion is to call GW Customer Service AND David Neese, VP Engineering at GW in Greenville, NC for an authoritative answer. If you were on the East Coast sport fishing out as far as the Georges Bank and other similar far away offshore ocean locals then, maybe, three F350s could be justified. In 2008 GW 360s have been sold new with two F250s so two F350s should be enough to carry the day and then some.

Best of success with your purchase.

 

[Gary M]

In 2008 GW 360s have been sold new with two F250s so two F350s should be enough to carry the day and then some.

To my knowledge, no 360s have ever been sold with twin 250s. That would be severely underpowered. It's my understanding that they were originally offered with triple 250s and now twin 350s.

One thing to keep in mind in the twin vs triple situation is that you will have 50% more maintenence costs with triples over twins as well as a 50% better chance of problems with the extra enigine over a twin set-up. A buddy of mine has triple 250s on his 37 Intrepid and he can't wait for Yamaha to come out with the 400s so that he can go back to twins.....

On the 330, you will only be able to get one kid on the dinette in the 330. Two adults should have no problem on the big V-berth on the 330s......or in the mid-berth.

I think that you might feel a bit of an initial "sticker shock" owning a 330/360 over your 24 Regal in two areas:

1) The first time that you put on 300+ gallons of fuel! Plan on that fuel bill starting with----> $1,

2) The first time that you pick the boat up from the shop after having a full, annual service of bottom paint, water pumps, oil changes, genset service plus whatever repairs.

I'm just saying that the cost of "ownership" will be a dramatic increase over your Regal!

Another option would be to get a used 330 and try it on for size for a season or two. You'll gain valuable experience as well as finding out if the 360 would ever be in your future....

Good luck and keep us posted!!

 

[townvet]

stripedbass offers EXCELLENT advice. I would also second the opinion that you talk with David Neese.
When I was deciding upon the Grady vs the Pursuit David called me at the request of my Grady dealer. (That alone was enough to make me go with the Grady). What we discussed was the different set ups, Triple 350's vs. Twin 350's vs Triple 300's. I decided to go with the triple 300's. The deciding factor was weight, fuel economy and performance. I had twin 350's on my Canyon and loved the motors. They were fast, quiet and bullet proof. The sea trial of the 360 with twin 350's felt slightly underpowered for me (used to the rocket ship of the Canyon 336) so I chose the Triple 300's to hopefully get the best of both worlds.
I splash the boat in a little over 2 weeks. I will write back to give my impressions of the maiden voyage (a 4 hour cruise from Mass to NH) but won't be able to really see what she can do till after the first service break in period.

 

[NIRDOC]

Thank you all for such great input. That's why I joined this forum - I heard Grady owners were a very welcoming group of people. I'll be very interested to hear townvet's initial thoughts on his 360.

Not wanting to pester folks, but Gary M brings up an interesting point. I see a lot of people have "stepped up" in models (330 to 360, etc) - and some have done so over a relatively short period of time (2 to 3 years). Doesn't one take a serious financial hit trading up over a relatively short period? If not, maybe starting with the 330 would be the way to go. Very nice loaded 2008 at the Seattle dealership (dual 350's <400hrs). Or, would it be better to just minimize the financial "trade up loss" and go with the 360 from the start?

 

[striped bass]

Doc:

Tough question. You would have to crunch the numbers on the "trade up" options for a definitive answer if that is possible given the variables you will have to address in your assumptions. The big variable you are forced to deal with is the current "recession" in the boating industry which throws in a lot of unknowns. For example, if you buy the 330 now, will the boating "recession" be over when you decide to move up and what impact will that have on boating price points? Another variable in play right now and probably for the foreseeable future is the price of oil and gas and the impact that will have on the boating industry. Also a 2008 vessel will very soon be at the age when parts begin to wear out which will up your annual maintenance costs by orders of magnitude. You are in a region of the U.S. where GWs are not plentiful which further complicates arriving at a definitive answer to your question. Buying used versus new is another big consideration. The list goes on and on.

A common approach frequently expressed on this forum and others is to identify the manufacturer and model of boat you want and go after the best deal you can negotiate, new or used, and don't look back.

I'm sure other posters will weigh in on this issue and shed more light than I can.

 

[The Black Pearl II]

I have had both-still have the 360, and there is NO COMPARISON- get the 360 get triple 300's, add a captain chair to the port side, 4 blade props, EZ 2 SEE or comparable enclosure. the 330 has lots of advantages, lower cost, lower cost to use, easy to get in and out of the water, easier to sneak into and out of small gunk holes. 360-the cabin is better, head better, comfortable, etc. the only thing is, it just is an expensive boat-cost, use etc. I just changed my prop's to 4 blades and when from .82mpg to .95 ( I even saw a 1.0 on the Yamaha gauges!) which helps with the cost of operation. good luck! you may find some lightly used 360's around that you can get a very good price on.

 

[LongTimeLoafer]

We have had and enjoyed both boats, each bought new; we ran the 330 with twin 250's for three years, then traded it in for the 360 with twin 350's which we have used the past three years. You can't go wrong with either one!!!

We did not find the 360 to be substantially more complex than the 330, nor was it more difficult to handle. That said, the 360 does indeed feel like much more of a boat (it is!), so any maneuvering in close quarters requires a bit more patience.

A significant difference between the two boats was the power required to run everything when not under way or plugged in at our slip. The 360 requires the generator to be running to keep things like the refrigerator going when at anchor. We solved this with a dealer-installed inverter and a separate battery bank, so we can be at anchor quietly with no need to shut down everything.

We have not found the 360 with twin 350's to be underpowered; it is even a bit quicker out of the hole than our 330 was with twin 250's. That said, we're not overly concerned with speed.

We moved up for the simple reason that we wanted more room both in the cabin and in the helm area. For example, the V berth on the 360 is far more expansive than on the 330 (more headroom, no lurking fishing rods), and everything from the head to the shower to the table does not feel cramped. It is just my wife and I most of the time (grown children), but when we do load the boat with kids and grandkids, there is enough space for everyone, even if it rains.

For us, the decision to buy each boat was the right one at the time. We moved up from a Gulfstream 230 to the 330, and I was a bit anxious with that size leap (although I've got more than 40 years of small boat experience!). It took a couple of seasons to feel comfortable with my ability to handle the 330 properly, but when we moved up to the 360 it was mot a major adjustment.

As to costs and maintenance requirements, everyone was his own take. I budget about $10,000 per year for maintenance and off-season storage (slip fees are separate). We are blessed to have a fantastic local Grady dealer who does everything for us, and always has (Bayside Marine in Duxbury, MA, from whom we bought our first Grady back in '85). The costs for maintaining the 330 did not seem in a totally lesser league, although my memory may not be what it should be!

The advice given about sea trials is sound. Being at the helm of each boat in real sea conditions will answer some of your handling questions. If you feel comfortable running the 330, you will probably feel equally comfortable running the 360.

I hope this helps. In any event, what a wonderful choice to have!! Good luck with your decision, and welcome to the Grady world!

Jerry

 

[Gary M]

My Grady Trail went like this:

1) 1993 208 Adventure W/A with a 150 Yamaha. Bought it for $21,500 in 1997....sold it 5 years later (and 3 Bahamas trips!) for $18,000 to the first folks that looked at it.

2) 1994 252 Sailfish with 225 Ocean Pros. Bought it for $43,500 in 2002......sold it 4 years later (11 Bahamas trips) for $33,000 to the first folks who looked at it.

3) 2001 Marlin with 250 OX-66s. Bought it for $91,000 in 2006.......... still have it......... The HEY MON! will go up for sale after the busy summer.

The point I'm making is that Gradys have great re-sale value and are popular and well respected boats. Whatever boat that you buy, if you take good care of her, you'll get most of your money back. Like cars, if you do buy "new", you'll take the biggest hit in the value. This will be offset, the longer that you own and use her.

One way to "justify" the costs is to USE and ENJOY the boat! Go have lots and lots of fun! We "lost" $3,500 on the first Grady but when we divided the hours that we used her, it came about to about $13 an hour! The Sailfish "cost" us about $33 an hour for that fun!

I moved up in size every 4-5 years and will be doing so again when we get a used 330 soon. In fact, I'm "overdue" for a newer boat! The "big" jump comes not only with size, but in complexity. Single to twins, having sea cocks (my 208 had none and the Marlin has 4!), air conditioning, shore power, a genset, a radar, an autopilot, having a galley, shower, etc, etc, etc. Learning to maintain and use them all (as well as fixing them!) adds to your learning curve.

As far as learning close-quarters handling after you buy her, don't forget that one option would be to hire a professional boat Captain for a few hours of personal instruction. Your G-W dealer might be able to recommend someone.

 

[Boat Hound]

I think I might be in the minority in this, but I would go 360. The fuel burn will be slightly higher, and maintenance will be a little higher with the twin 350's - but not a ton. Most of the other costs are really the same. Jumping from a Regal to either one, will be huge either way. You will never know the difference between stepping up to either. Just hire a capt for the day to get you started, and set some dough aside for gel coat damage. It does not sound like cost is a big part of this process, so step up!

FWIW - my neighbor bought a 330 for his first boat - he did fine with some practice and coaching

 

[NIRDOC]

Wow! Great info. Thanks to all for your input. Many things I had never considered.

Sea trials may be a little difficult up here in the northwest. Not many 360's according to the dealer. Sounds like a cross country trip the the factory would be helpful as well.

 

[IMHO]

I've been told by some to expect spending ~7-10%/yr of the value of the boat for all costs (everything).

I think that 10% is a very reasonable number unless you intend to do some of the work yourself.