2014 Freedom 22.5 - Noticed earlier this season that my fresh water tank despite being reasonably filled was empty again after minimal use. I don’t use the fresh water shower so often. Then I re filled it with let’s say 3 gallons or so , couple of weeks later it’s empty again. I am thinking it has to be a cracked tank but of course it could be the pump. Last time it emptied pump worked fine after filling. I am seeing some bilge water so maybe it is slower leak in tank ? Thinking it has to be tank to empty without pressure no ? I paid for winterization of fresh water this past winter. Cannot see how tank would crack. Any advice on troubleshooting and then how to replace tank if bad ? Thank you ! I love this boat !
Fresh Water System Leak
- Thread starter LoopyO
- Start date
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- freedom 225 leak water tank
Replying to my own post to add this : also noticed earlier in the year that with the fresh water pressure on , the cockpit shower was running right away before I pressed the button on the shower head. And it was hard to turn off. Today when I noticed this empty tank issue ( was trying to rinse a little Hopkins lure ) water pressure on resulted in bubbling sound out of shower head ( no water ) and I could hear pump continually cycling. Pressing button on shower head had no effect on cycling and bubbling at all. Saw another thread here about pump constant cycling being a potential pump issue? Anyhow could use some hints on how to figure out what is wrong. Thank you all.
Thank you ! If I recall just after putting more water in the tank the shower head worked well. I also took off the shower head and the bubbling was the same. Question : if I put some water in the tank and the shower head sprays well could it mean that I have a leaking tank ? I know for sure I put a number of gallons of water in the tank , did not use shower but water may be gone. Just cannot think how tank could empty without water pressure on.
Theoretically, you could lose water via the unpressurized side upstream from the pump if the pump allowed water to gravity flow through the pump to the pressure outside. To check which side leaks fill your tank make sure your pump is energized and wait a few hours and see if it cycles. You should be able to pressurize the pressure side and it should not lose pressure for at least several hours. Mine will remain pressurized without power for several days. If your pump cycles every few minutes without any flow demand you have a leak on the pressure side. That can occur at outlet devices or connections throughout the system. You should be able to pressurize your water system, turn all power off, come back several hours later, turn power on and your water pump should not run. The pump is designed to run only when the pressure side drops the pressure below proximately 25 psi. There’s also a check valve in the pump that prevents pressure from back flowing into the non-pressure tank side.
Ok - yesterday I added some water to the tank. About 30 seconds of flow into tank at least a gallon. When I turned water pressure on the shower sprayed and pump was cycling. The button on shower remained depressed I noticed. I turned water pressure off and removed shower head. Then put pressure back on and used my finger to block flow out of shower hose and the pump stopped cycling. Then I took apart shower head , and cleaned it a bit , now the spring is pushing back the button and turning off water flow ( and stopping pump cycle ) as normal. However the tank was still empty last time after no use. I added more water in tank before I left dock and will get back to boat in a few days to see if tank drained again. Thank you for your response about the pressure holding but honestly I really did not understand it fully. Are you saying that normally once the tank is pressurized the pump does not need to cycle with water demand ? I think my pump always cycled when I pressed shower button, but pump stopped when I let go of button. So the idea is that if I pressurize ( water pressure switch to on ) and wait some time and the pump turns on without me pressing the shower button ( water demand ) then the leak is on pressure side ? How can I tell if the leak is in the tank ? If the leak is the tank clearly the only way the tank could bust is if it were not properly winterized right ? Thanks so much for answers this is great forum.
The tank is never pressurized. The tank provides gravity flow only to the inlet of the water pump. There is typically a screen type filter between the tank and the water pump to accumulate debris if any. Another thing is if you were able to hold back the pressure with your thumb or finger then your water pump is not providing adequate pressure. Most of those pumps provide 30 to 50 psi. The pump has a switch in the pressure side that tells it when to come on when the pressure falls to a certain level either during a leak or when you open a valve to use water. all the connections between the tank and the water pump itself have only gravity pressure. All of the connections between the water pump and the shower sink etc. are always pressurized with the pump energized. That means the connections on the pressure side are under more pressure than the connections on the tank side. The pump should only run when there’s a demand on the system. It is conceivable that if the system was not properly winterized you could have damage to either the tank and associated lines on the gravity side, the pump itself, or the pressure side. Every few years I locate my pump and make sure the filter is clean just as a matter of routine maintenance.
On some setups, there is an accumulator tank after the pump and that tank is pressurized. I don't think the 225 would have an accumulator tank but larger hulls with more fresh water demands probably would.
I forgot about the accumulator. The newer pumps do not require an accumulator. Even with an accumulator the main water tank is not pressurized and accumulator is on the pressure side of the system.
I don't exactly follow your freshwater problem description.
Can you please clarify a few items so these fine commenters can better help you?
You have a freshwater holding tank that you can refill using a garden hose or such through a capped fill port, correct?
This freshwater tank should hold 10 gallons of water and when empty should take around 3 to 10 minutes to refill, depending on garden hose diameter and water supply pressure.
You have a freshwater pump switch, yours may be labeled "Water Pressure," somewhere on the console?
You have one handheld shower sprayer, with a pushbutton control, mounted somewhere near the transom boarding ladder?
You normally keep the freshwater pump (Water Pressure) switch in the OFF position except when you want to operate the freshwater sprayer?
When you say the tank is "empty", do you know the tank is actually empty and you can add another 10 gallons (again this should take 3 to 10 minutes to fill) to bring it back to full, or do you mean the sprayer will not spray?
IF... You have the freshwater pump (Water Pressure) switch off (assuming factory wiring and that someone hasn't wired around the switch) and the freshwater tank empties over night or say several days, and you require 5 to 10 gallons (3 to 10 minutes) to refill the tank, then the tank is leaking. Have the tank replaced.
IF... You leave the "Water Pressure" switch in the ON position, and your freshwater pump is operating (you can hear the pump motor if you listen), the freshwater pump can empty the 10 gallon freshwater tank fairly quickly (3 to 5 minutes) under these conditions:
a) the sprayer valve is stuck in the open position
b) the sprayer valve is defective (they will freeze and break) and will not close
c) the pump body is broken (they will freeze and break)
d) the water line from the pump to the sprayer is disconnected or broken (these do not normally freeze and break).
IF...The water tank is full or near full, the Water Pressure switch is in the on position and the circuit breaker has not been tripped, and when you press the sprayer valve button you get nothing, then the freshwater pump is most likely bad. First confirm good positive and negative power connections at the pump and correct as needed. If you have good power and ground at the pump, replace the entire freshwater pump. You WILL NOT hear the freshwater pump running under this condition.
IF...The water tank is full or near full, the Water Pressure switch is in the on position and the circuit breaker has not been tripped, and when you press the sprayer valve button you hear the freshwater pump motor running and still get little water flow or only a "gurgle" sound, then the following conditions may exist:
a) the fittings on the water line leading from the freshwater tank to the freshwater pump may be loose and allowing air to enter, and not allowing the pump to prime and pump water. The likely loose fittings are the ones connecting the water line to the strainer screen, the strainer screen itself (they will freeze and break), or the connection from the screen to the pump. Inspect, tighten or replace as needed. This condition is unusual unless someone has been "working" in and around these components (except for freeze damage)
b) your freshwater pump is most likely bad. Replace the "wet end" of the pump, or if existing pump is original to the 2014 build, replace the entire freshwater pump.
I know this is a lot to digest, but follow this description through and you will know exactly what is causing and how to fix your freshwater problem (absent a few really unlikely issues).
Can you please clarify a few items so these fine commenters can better help you?
You have a freshwater holding tank that you can refill using a garden hose or such through a capped fill port, correct?
This freshwater tank should hold 10 gallons of water and when empty should take around 3 to 10 minutes to refill, depending on garden hose diameter and water supply pressure.
You have a freshwater pump switch, yours may be labeled "Water Pressure," somewhere on the console?
You have one handheld shower sprayer, with a pushbutton control, mounted somewhere near the transom boarding ladder?
You normally keep the freshwater pump (Water Pressure) switch in the OFF position except when you want to operate the freshwater sprayer?
When you say the tank is "empty", do you know the tank is actually empty and you can add another 10 gallons (again this should take 3 to 10 minutes to fill) to bring it back to full, or do you mean the sprayer will not spray?
IF... You have the freshwater pump (Water Pressure) switch off (assuming factory wiring and that someone hasn't wired around the switch) and the freshwater tank empties over night or say several days, and you require 5 to 10 gallons (3 to 10 minutes) to refill the tank, then the tank is leaking. Have the tank replaced.
IF... You leave the "Water Pressure" switch in the ON position, and your freshwater pump is operating (you can hear the pump motor if you listen), the freshwater pump can empty the 10 gallon freshwater tank fairly quickly (3 to 5 minutes) under these conditions:
a) the sprayer valve is stuck in the open position
b) the sprayer valve is defective (they will freeze and break) and will not close
c) the pump body is broken (they will freeze and break)
d) the water line from the pump to the sprayer is disconnected or broken (these do not normally freeze and break).
IF...The water tank is full or near full, the Water Pressure switch is in the on position and the circuit breaker has not been tripped, and when you press the sprayer valve button you get nothing, then the freshwater pump is most likely bad. First confirm good positive and negative power connections at the pump and correct as needed. If you have good power and ground at the pump, replace the entire freshwater pump. You WILL NOT hear the freshwater pump running under this condition.
IF...The water tank is full or near full, the Water Pressure switch is in the on position and the circuit breaker has not been tripped, and when you press the sprayer valve button you hear the freshwater pump motor running and still get little water flow or only a "gurgle" sound, then the following conditions may exist:
a) the fittings on the water line leading from the freshwater tank to the freshwater pump may be loose and allowing air to enter, and not allowing the pump to prime and pump water. The likely loose fittings are the ones connecting the water line to the strainer screen, the strainer screen itself (they will freeze and break), or the connection from the screen to the pump. Inspect, tighten or replace as needed. This condition is unusual unless someone has been "working" in and around these components (except for freeze damage)
b) your freshwater pump is most likely bad. Replace the "wet end" of the pump, or if existing pump is original to the 2014 build, replace the entire freshwater pump.
I know this is a lot to digest, but follow this description through and you will know exactly what is causing and how to fix your freshwater problem (absent a few really unlikely issues).
Tom - my replies in context below
I don't exactly follow your freshwater problem description.
Can you please clarify a few items so these fine commenters can better help you?
You have a freshwater holding tank that you can refill using a garden hose or such through a capped fill port, correct? Tom - Yes
This freshwater tank should hold 10 gallons of water and when empty should take around 3 to 10 minutes to refill, depending on garden hose diameter and water supply pressure.
You have a freshwater pump switch, yours may be labeled "Water Pressure," somewhere on the console?
You have one handheld shower sprayer, with a pushbutton control, mounted somewhere near the transom boarding ladder? Tom - yes to all three !
You normally keep the freshwater pump (Water Pressure) switch in the OFF position except when you want to operate the freshwater sprayer? Tom - Yes
When you say the tank is "empty", do you know the tank is actually empty and you can add another 10 gallons (again this should take 3 to 10 minutes to fill) to bring it back to full, or do you mean the sprayer will not spray? Tom- have added water to the tank twice now and the shower head and pump seem to work fine. Tomorrow I will check tank with camera scope to see if it drained empty. The sprayer was originally stuck in depressed button state , I have since fixed that.
IF... You have the freshwater pump (Water Pressure) switch off (assuming factory wiring and that someone hasn't wired around the switch) and the freshwater tank empties over night or say several days, and you require 5 to 10 gallons (3 to 10 minutes) to refill the tank, then the tank is leaking. Have the tank replaced. Tom - ok I will know soon.
IF... You leave the "Water Pressure" switch in the ON position, and your freshwater pump is operating (you can hear the pump motor if you listen), the freshwater pump can empty the 10 gallon freshwater tank fairly quickly (3 to 5 minutes) under these conditions:
a) the sprayer valve is stuck in the open position
b) the sprayer valve is defective (they will freeze and break) and will not close
c) the pump body is broken (they will freeze and break)
d) the water line from the pump to the sprayer is disconnected or broken (these do not normally freeze and break). Tom - I don’t normally leave pressure on. Good point however , while the shower head was stuck in button depressed mode , it’s feasible that we could have accidentally put water pressure on when running , draining the tank with the shower head not even pulled out of the receptacle. Hmmmmm….
IF...The water tank is full or near full, the Water Pressure switch is in the on position and the circuit breaker has not been tripped, and when you press the sprayer valve button you get nothing, then the freshwater pump is most likely bad. First confirm good positive and negative power connections at the pump and correct as needed. If you have good power and ground at the pump, replace the entire freshwater pump. You WILL NOT hear the freshwater pump running under this condition. Tom - just after filling tank with a gallon or two of water and after fixing shower head the spray is fine and pump stops when I let go of sprayer button.
IF...The water tank is full or near full, the Water Pressure switch is in the on position and the circuit breaker has not been tripped, and when you press the sprayer valve button you hear the freshwater pump motor running and still get little water flow or only a "gurgle" sound, then the following conditions may exist:
a) the fittings on the water line leading from the freshwater tank to the freshwater pump may be loose and allowing air to enter, and not allowing the pump to prime and pump water. The likely loose fittings are the ones connecting the water line to the strainer screen, the strainer screen itself (they will freeze and break), or the connection from the screen to the pump. Inspect, tighten or replace as needed. This condition is unusual unless someone has been "working" in and around these components (except for freeze damage)
b) your freshwater pump is most likely bad. Replace the "wet end" of the pump, or if existing pump is original to the 2014 build, replace the entire freshwater pump.Tom - not the case at all !
Tom - thank you !
I don't exactly follow your freshwater problem description.
Can you please clarify a few items so these fine commenters can better help you?
You have a freshwater holding tank that you can refill using a garden hose or such through a capped fill port, correct? Tom - Yes
This freshwater tank should hold 10 gallons of water and when empty should take around 3 to 10 minutes to refill, depending on garden hose diameter and water supply pressure.
You have a freshwater pump switch, yours may be labeled "Water Pressure," somewhere on the console?
You have one handheld shower sprayer, with a pushbutton control, mounted somewhere near the transom boarding ladder? Tom - yes to all three !
You normally keep the freshwater pump (Water Pressure) switch in the OFF position except when you want to operate the freshwater sprayer? Tom - Yes
When you say the tank is "empty", do you know the tank is actually empty and you can add another 10 gallons (again this should take 3 to 10 minutes to fill) to bring it back to full, or do you mean the sprayer will not spray? Tom- have added water to the tank twice now and the shower head and pump seem to work fine. Tomorrow I will check tank with camera scope to see if it drained empty. The sprayer was originally stuck in depressed button state , I have since fixed that.
IF... You have the freshwater pump (Water Pressure) switch off (assuming factory wiring and that someone hasn't wired around the switch) and the freshwater tank empties over night or say several days, and you require 5 to 10 gallons (3 to 10 minutes) to refill the tank, then the tank is leaking. Have the tank replaced. Tom - ok I will know soon.
IF... You leave the "Water Pressure" switch in the ON position, and your freshwater pump is operating (you can hear the pump motor if you listen), the freshwater pump can empty the 10 gallon freshwater tank fairly quickly (3 to 5 minutes) under these conditions:
a) the sprayer valve is stuck in the open position
b) the sprayer valve is defective (they will freeze and break) and will not close
c) the pump body is broken (they will freeze and break)
d) the water line from the pump to the sprayer is disconnected or broken (these do not normally freeze and break). Tom - I don’t normally leave pressure on. Good point however , while the shower head was stuck in button depressed mode , it’s feasible that we could have accidentally put water pressure on when running , draining the tank with the shower head not even pulled out of the receptacle. Hmmmmm….
IF...The water tank is full or near full, the Water Pressure switch is in the on position and the circuit breaker has not been tripped, and when you press the sprayer valve button you get nothing, then the freshwater pump is most likely bad. First confirm good positive and negative power connections at the pump and correct as needed. If you have good power and ground at the pump, replace the entire freshwater pump. You WILL NOT hear the freshwater pump running under this condition. Tom - just after filling tank with a gallon or two of water and after fixing shower head the spray is fine and pump stops when I let go of sprayer button.
IF...The water tank is full or near full, the Water Pressure switch is in the on position and the circuit breaker has not been tripped, and when you press the sprayer valve button you hear the freshwater pump motor running and still get little water flow or only a "gurgle" sound, then the following conditions may exist:
a) the fittings on the water line leading from the freshwater tank to the freshwater pump may be loose and allowing air to enter, and not allowing the pump to prime and pump water. The likely loose fittings are the ones connecting the water line to the strainer screen, the strainer screen itself (they will freeze and break), or the connection from the screen to the pump. Inspect, tighten or replace as needed. This condition is unusual unless someone has been "working" in and around these components (except for freeze damage)
b) your freshwater pump is most likely bad. Replace the "wet end" of the pump, or if existing pump is original to the 2014 build, replace the entire freshwater pump.Tom - not the case at all !
Tom - thank you !
For reference, I have had that exact sprayer go bad on two different boats. Twice from crud/corrosion and once from freeze and break. I've had pumps go bad as well. Two from worn out check valves inside the pump and one from freeze and break.
Ok so the theory that the shower head stuck in depressed ( on) mode while inadvertently putting water pressure on while running ( and draining tank ) seems to be valid. I had water in tank today after a week of sitting idle. No problems !! Thanks to all who commented I really do appreciate the education.
Great news. The handheld shower sprayer is most likely made by Scandvik and like replacements are readily available for reasonable price at several marine parts suppliers. But if you were able to clean and free up the spring and the rubber/plastic seals/seats are not damaged, you should be good with the existing IF you clean it periodically.