Fuel System Grounding Question

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dockerduk

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I'm am purchasing a 1989 Grady White 228 Seafarer. The boat is in excellent condition, and has been exclusively kept in fresh water. I just had it surveyed. My problem is that the surveyor said that he couldn't see where the steel ring around the fuel filler cap was electrically grounded. This appears to be original factory configuration with no modifications. It was difficult to see up there from the bottom. He said that he can't imagine that it wasn't grounded, since this has been the regulation for a long time, but he couldn't see it. He told me that this would be a major safety concern, due to the possibility of a static electric spark at the time of fueling, causing a fire.
My question is, does anyone know how these things are normally grounded in this boat? What should I do to investigate it further?
Thank You. I'm very eager to get out and use this boat, even though it was snowing today in Michigan for a bit! :(
 
Get your self some GREEN 12 gauge MARINE wire and run it from the fill to the stud that all green wire go. While at it, check to see if your tank is grounded also, if it is, follow the green wire to see where it goes.
 
Thank you for the response. The surveyor said that the fuel tank was properly grounded. I thought that I may be able to just run a wire from one of the mounting screws to the electrical ground.
Would this normally be grounded at the time of construction? Could they have just missed it on this boat? Just seemed unlikely, with the obvious quality of construction of this boat. Way better safe than sorry!
 
OK Mr EE :wink: ...my tanks did not have a factory ground and, I don't have that stud where all the green wires go....actually, I have no green (sheathed ones anyway) wires at all? Everthing went to the battery, which I thought is what's called a "floating ground" for 12V DC systems? Any and all help for dockerduk and I would be appreciated
 
All tanks have a 1/4" stud normally where the sender is located.
Some companies use a stud for grounding so they don't have to have a million negative and ground wires on the negative post. Don't forget also all the seacocks have to be grounded.
Listen to this now, the Formula that i'm redoing now has grounded every bolt that holds the aluminum windshield to the deck.
 
Thanks NEM...I checked back on a photo before pulling the tanks last summer and there is a black wire going back to the toggle panel..my bad...I must have cut it to get it out of the way....maybe the toggle switch/plate has some common ground going "somewhere"...they're all daisy chained back there so its tough to see whats what...looks like I have to run a ground wire to be sure, but to where, the battery neg? And where does that seacock get grounded to? There's definitley no ground from the fuel fill cap as Dockerduk was questioning with his surveyor.....so the static issue remains with my set up .

Dockerduk, do you see or know where the fuel fill ground goes to on your boat?

....I hate electrical...I survived one semester of it and thats it....its so much easier building a bridge..either the beam deflects or it doesn't. You know, when Boaters World was going out of business a year or so ago, I went in and bought 25 feet of every color 14g wire at 50% off for some future project... I guess I had someone looking over my shoulder that day...........

That Formula sounds interesting.....every windshield bolt? sounds like a very thorough wire job....I like that!!

Maybe you could shave her down and make the fastest Chris Craft ever made? :lol:
 
The "real" seacocks have a bolt on the side of the body to connect a ground wire, if you don't have that, you can always use one of the mouting bolts.
You can run the ground wire to the battery negative, but what i would do is install a a bus bar or a stud and connect all grounds there and then a single 10 or 12 gauge to the negative post.
The Formula is really an interested project. I'm doing a total restoration.
She is at this stage now
IMG_0150.jpg


IMG_0149.jpg


but i'm getting there, i also had a little boo boo, so that delay me for couple of weeks. (those darn grinders)

IMG_0151.jpg
 
What's the theory behind grounding seacocks, electrolysis prevention?
First I've heard of this.
 
Fuel Fill Ground.

I'm not sure where the wire goes. I'll probably be going back to the marina this week to fix a couple of little issues found on the survey, so I'll take a look and see if I can figure it out. It's interesting to know that other Grady's are not grounded there as well. The surveyor thought this was potentially a pretty big safety issue, so I'm sure that I will find a way ground that ring.
BTW, I also have one finger that is a little shorter than the others. I guess if you sit on the couch all day and watch TV, those things wouldn't happen! :wink:
 
NEM, that nail doesn't look too good. I had a puller break and flip around and split my thumb nail a few years back, it @&(@ HURT.

I just got one of my fuel tanks back in with new hoses so it's still pretty fresh in my head. The fuel fills are grounded to the DC common from underneath (thru-bolted) and the tanks have a ground wire to the tank itself and the sender. I have yet to see the DC common tied to ground anywhere. The boat doesn't have shore power, yet, but even if you don't have that option, shouldn't the common be bonded to ground?
 
Grog said:
NEM, that nail doesn't look too good. I had a puller break and flip around and split my thumb nail a few years back, it @&(@ HURT.

I just got one of my fuel tanks back in with new hoses so it's still pretty fresh in my head. The fuel fills are grounded to the DC common from underneath (thru-bolted) and the tanks have a ground wire to the tank itself and the sender. I have yet to see the DC common tied to ground anywhere. The boat doesn't have shore power, yet, but even if you don't have that option, shouldn't the common be bonded to ground?
Click to expand...

Grog,
What do you mean when you say "DC common"? Are you meaning 12V-? If the "DC common" didn't tie into DC ground anywhere, none of your 12V equipment would work, as there would be no return path back to the battery.

Take a look at these 2 drawings I've done, one of the typical production builder bilge wiring, the other of the helm wiring...
NewBilgeDrawing.jpg

HelmWiring2.jpg


Note how the batt supplies the ground bus in the bilge for the bilge located equipment, then runs forward from the same bus to the helm ground bus to service the forward mounted equipment. Tying the fuel tank and fuel fill to either of these buses will sufficiently "bond" the tank.

And if you have shorepower, the ground in the 120V system gets terminated to the 12V ground bus as well..
 
NEM, that looks awful...don't even want to imagine the type of language muttered after that............but the project looks like a good one.

Grog, thanks for the explanation and Seabob, looks like all your components go to ground at the battery, including the tank ground which in turn gets grounded to the motor... so what does it mean by a floating ground? When I rewired a boat 3 years ago, I ran a black ground from the battery negative to an engine bracket bolt to ground the whole system....I believe one of Pascoes write ups says not to do that because it will cause stray current problems, so I disconnected that bond wire....but since the motor is connected to the battery, and the bracket is connected to the motor, aren't they really one big ground?
 
richie rich said:
NEM, that looks awful...don't even want to imagine the type of language muttered after that............but the project looks like a good one.

Grog, thanks for the explanation and Seabob, looks like all your components go to ground at the battery, including the tank ground which in turn gets grounded to the motor... so what does it mean by a floating ground? When I rewired a boat 3 years ago, I ran a black ground from the battery negative to an engine bracket bolt to ground the whole system....I believe one of Pascoes write ups says not to do that because it will cause stray current problems, so I disconnected that bond wire....but since the motor is connected to the battery, and the bracket is connected to the motor, aren't they really one big ground?
Click to expand...

My whole thumb was split, not just the nail, it happened with a grinder and 1/16 thick cutting blade, did not hurt at all, i didn't even felt anything, no blood either ????? The real pain was at the hospital when they shoot me the anestisia with those thick needles.
Yes, your engine is the actual ground of the whole boat.
No, you don't need another ground wire to the bracket.
 
No Blood??? Maybe you were empty...I'd get a fill up at the hospital.......Cutting blade on a grinder can be catastrophic....thats why I bought a Fein Multimaster for this stuff....great tool but safe...(and expensive too but worth it) Nice sawzall for the heavy cutting.

No additional ground it is.....
 
I forgot about the negative lead going to the motor(s). With them down there should be a pretty good connection but when they're up it would questionable. With the motors down, the DC common (-) is bonded to ground so if you're filling the gas in the water the housing is tied to ground and shouldn't build up static electricity.
 
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