Time to buy new batteries and was wondering if anyone has been able to fit group 27s in their 265 Express. I have 2 batteries to starboard and one to port. Looks like it will be very tight but would like to get the CCAs and the reserve power. Boat came with group 24s, so I'll need new trays. Anyone done this or can think of any issues with the plan??
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Group 27 Batteries in a 265 ?
- Thread starter Enough Already
- Start date
Bama96
Well-Known Member
No problem I can see. I would get three of these Cabelas AGMs. I just ordered 2 for my 225. Free shipping also. Not sure how much longer the sale will last.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true
I spoke to GW customer service last week and they said DON'T get tempted by the new gel or AGM batteries. Apparently the Yammies and charging systems don't do too well with those batteries. They said to get a good quality dual-purpose maintenance free with as high CCA and reserve as you can find. Not sure if its just my year and motors (2001 2-strokes) but you might want to check!!
Bama96
Well-Known Member
I have been running AGMs for 5 years on my other Yamaha powered boats and have never had a problem. My dealer is a Master Yamaha Technician and said they were great and he preferred them due to the higher reserve capacity and CCAs. Mine were 2002 and newer 4 strokes and a couple of HPDI VMAX motors however.
I am going through the same process on the same boat with the same questions. FWIW, I have heard that yes, can put 2 Group 27's in Stbd box but tray will need to be slightly modified with a small cut out. Hoping someone who has done it will chime in to confirm that.
I know Grady/Yamaha recommending STARTING batteries. My question is would that be starting batteries for all three including the "house" battery dedicated to accesories and not engine starting? Starting batteries are best for that purpose but it would seem a dual purpose would better serve the function of the house battery..and isn't that battery charged by charger and not so much by running engine alternator's? I know very little about what I am talking about here so I could well be wrong with my "logic".
And while we are at it.... amy recommendations for a new on board charger? Do you locate it in the port box where the standard equipment Guest is?
I know Grady/Yamaha recommending STARTING batteries. My question is would that be starting batteries for all three including the "house" battery dedicated to accesories and not engine starting? Starting batteries are best for that purpose but it would seem a dual purpose would better serve the function of the house battery..and isn't that battery charged by charger and not so much by running engine alternator's? I know very little about what I am talking about here so I could well be wrong with my "logic".
And while we are at it.... amy recommendations for a new on board charger? Do you locate it in the port box where the standard equipment Guest is?
When in doubt call Grady. I looked at your post again and saw you said that Grady had recommended "dual purpose" and I had said "starting". For my year at least (2005) they reitterated 'starting" and not dual purpose. Also, in 2005 the 265 came with group 27's so they are likely to fit in other years. And yes, all 3 as starting since the "A' bank consists of both stbd batteries and is charged by the alternator together.
Curmudgeon
Well-Known Member
AGM and gel batteries are not the same technology. Gels are suited strictly for deep cycle situations when a controlled regulated charging system is available. AGMs are suited for either starting or deep cycle operations and do not require any special care and feeding.
The Cabela's grp 27 AGMs (as an example) are rated 950 CCA/1200 MCA and 180 reserve minutes. Those numbers satisfy the battery requirements of most any outboard. Oh, and I suspect Grady puts in the least expensive battery that satisfies Yamaha min requirement, and that would be a 'starting' battery ... :wink:
The Cabela's grp 27 AGMs (as an example) are rated 950 CCA/1200 MCA and 180 reserve minutes. Those numbers satisfy the battery requirements of most any outboard. Oh, and I suspect Grady puts in the least expensive battery that satisfies Yamaha min requirement, and that would be a 'starting' battery ... :wink:
Curmudgeon...not so sure about that- Grady putting in the least- my original equipment was three Group 27 Dekas... not a cheap battery. The guy I talked to at Grady (Danny) had a pretty detailed explanation as the whys and why nots for each type of battery. Didn't match yours. You might want to do yourself a favor and at least have the discussion with someone there. There are also posts if you look back that go into these issues in pretty good detail as well from people who know alot more than about marine systems than I do.
So, here is what I have been told by GW - and I'm no battery expert. The market mainly has starting, deep cycle or dual-purpose batteries (plus some other sophisticated variants). Starting will have higher CCA and deep cycle will have longer reserve. For my year boat, they recommend the dual-purpose which has some features of both. They specifically said I would have charging and longevity issues if I used the starting-only or deep cycle-only or if I purchased the newer gel or AGM batteries. With dual-purpose regular maintenance free batteries, the motor charging system will not care whether you have group 24s or 27s.
On my 265, still working on it but I think I will have to trim the aft vertical support piece about 1" to fit in the two group 27s on the starboard side. Definitely will be getting new trays - the no-metal kind with the strap. I would NOT trim out the old 24 trays to make the 27s fit because if you do, the small amount of seepage you seem to get over time will leak out of the tray and all over things down there. My battery charger is mounted starboard side, aft, up under the wall just above the dual batteries. The plug is run to underneath the starboard gunnel, aft, facing forward with a cover.
I also took some notes and wrote down how the battery switches work and include here for your reading pleasure:
Guest Switches port/starboard tie to motors port or starboard.
On switches, position “1” means that switch(motor) is started from and is charging the starboard battery bank when running.
On switches, position “2” means that switch(motor) is started from and is charging the port battery bank when running.
On switches, position “both” means that switch(motor) is started from and charging both battery banks.
Preferred position is one switch on “1” and the other on “2”. You can/should select and switch between the two periodically through the “both” position while running - just to even things up. Never select and switch positions while running through the “off” position or serious engine damage will result!!
On my 265, still working on it but I think I will have to trim the aft vertical support piece about 1" to fit in the two group 27s on the starboard side. Definitely will be getting new trays - the no-metal kind with the strap. I would NOT trim out the old 24 trays to make the 27s fit because if you do, the small amount of seepage you seem to get over time will leak out of the tray and all over things down there. My battery charger is mounted starboard side, aft, up under the wall just above the dual batteries. The plug is run to underneath the starboard gunnel, aft, facing forward with a cover.
I also took some notes and wrote down how the battery switches work and include here for your reading pleasure:
Guest Switches port/starboard tie to motors port or starboard.
On switches, position “1” means that switch(motor) is started from and is charging the starboard battery bank when running.
On switches, position “2” means that switch(motor) is started from and is charging the port battery bank when running.
On switches, position “both” means that switch(motor) is started from and charging both battery banks.
Preferred position is one switch on “1” and the other on “2”. You can/should select and switch between the two periodically through the “both” position while running - just to even things up. Never select and switch positions while running through the “off” position or serious engine damage will result!!
Strikezone
GreatGrady Captain
Enough Already said:Preferred position is one switch on “1” and the other on “2”. You can/should select and switch between the two periodically through the “both” position while running - just to even things up. Never select and switch positions while running through the “off” position or serious engine damage will result!!
Just to muddy up the topic a little - I've always been told not to run on both. A bad or weak battery can drain a good one. I'm not sure if this is true but I always try and alternate between "1" and "2".
JiminGA
Well-Known Member
Pretty much true - you should not run on both. Doing that can mask a defective battery and then the day will come that you aren't able to start and you find you are ALREADY in the both position - there's no backup after that unless you can get a jumpstart.
The only reason IMO to switch to "Both" would be in an emergency and you NEED "Both" to get the engine started.
We usually just alternate between 1 and 2 (using odd or even by calendar-day can help you keep track if you are running the boat very frequently/daily). Otherwise on a full daytrip, I'll start/run on 1 in the morning and then start/run on 2 in the afternoon.
Doing it this way allows you to ID a battery thats going bad.
The only reason IMO to switch to "Both" would be in an emergency and you NEED "Both" to get the engine started.
We usually just alternate between 1 and 2 (using odd or even by calendar-day can help you keep track if you are running the boat very frequently/daily). Otherwise on a full daytrip, I'll start/run on 1 in the morning and then start/run on 2 in the afternoon.
Doing it this way allows you to ID a battery thats going bad.
Curmudgeon
Well-Known Member
Didn't match yours.
I did myself that favor several years ago when I got my first Grady. They gave me the usual starting v. deep cycle spiel, but in the end said it didn't much matter what I used for normal purposes as long as the motor was happy. They also said owner abuse was the most frequent cause of battery warranty issues.
I also worked for a company that sells a bunch of marine batteries long enough to know "dual purpose" batteries sound much better than they perform in reality. Because of the disparate construction between start and deep cycles, a lead-acid 'dual purpose' does some of both, but not as well as either by itself. Dekas being a cut above the rest? Not in my experience, but my comment was intended to illustrate Grady may opt for lead-acid because it's cheaper for them, like most manufacturers, not necessarily because it's better.
AGMs do fine for normal starting and deep cycle, they satisfy what MOTOR manufacturers call for (the boat could care less), and they're about as maintenance free as it gets. That works for me and has for quite a few years, now ... :wink:
I did myself that favor several years ago when I got my first Grady. They gave me the usual starting v. deep cycle spiel, but in the end said it didn't much matter what I used for normal purposes as long as the motor was happy. They also said owner abuse was the most frequent cause of battery warranty issues.
I also worked for a company that sells a bunch of marine batteries long enough to know "dual purpose" batteries sound much better than they perform in reality. Because of the disparate construction between start and deep cycles, a lead-acid 'dual purpose' does some of both, but not as well as either by itself. Dekas being a cut above the rest? Not in my experience, but my comment was intended to illustrate Grady may opt for lead-acid because it's cheaper for them, like most manufacturers, not necessarily because it's better.
AGMs do fine for normal starting and deep cycle, they satisfy what MOTOR manufacturers call for (the boat could care less), and they're about as maintenance free as it gets. That works for me and has for quite a few years, now ... :wink:
gradyfish22
GreatGrady Captain
I added group 27's. In a post last year of my 2009 upgrades I have pictures of the 27's intsalled. I put in electro batteries and they crank over without a problem and I've had 0 problems. You will need to modify one of the battery trays on the stbd side to fit. You will need to cut a notch in the inboard battery tray on the aft inboard side to make it fit, it was roughly 1" by 2" but the batteries do fit. Its slightly tight if they rigged the boat without much slack in the wiring but it does fit for sure. The 265 should have honestly been standard with with group 27's.
HMBJack
Well-Known Member
Yes, the 27's will fit. I purchased 3 batteries of the type recommended in the GW Owner's Manual - Deka wet cells. Two starting batteries and one deep cycle (house). One start battery + a 3 stage, 3 battery (10 amps each), battery Charger (Guest) is also mounted on the port side near the start battery there. Then over on Starboard, as GradyFish mentions, goes the start + House (deep cycle) batteries. These two batteries sit parallel to the gunwhale ) Vs. the Port Start battery + charger which are perpendicular.
I also added the Blue Seas ACR switch and kit. This always preserves the start battery from the house no matter what happens. Lastly, for my final upgrade (this week-end) , I will be adding two auxilary charging leads from each F225 and connect them to my house deep cycle. This will "top off" the house battery when the engines are running. Good luck in your set-up. Fun stuff!
I also added the Blue Seas ACR switch and kit. This always preserves the start battery from the house no matter what happens. Lastly, for my final upgrade (this week-end) , I will be adding two auxilary charging leads from each F225 and connect them to my house deep cycle. This will "top off" the house battery when the engines are running. Good luck in your set-up. Fun stuff!