Helm Master issue - GPS Unstable

[gbgrady208]

Just curious if anyone with Helm Master has experienced the "GPS Unstable" message from the Yamaha CL7 console that causes autopilot and speed control to shutoff. There are some postings on The Hull Truth discussing this issue, but they predominately tie it to SPOT Trace that I do not have. This is happening on my Marlin at odd intervals and tends to happen most frequently when fast trolling vs. slow trolling or running at 25+ MPH. Helm Master does not use the GPS position from my other Garmin devices and relies on the Yamaha GPS antenna. When this happens, the Garmin GPS and VHF radio GPS signals are all fine, so it's something unique with the Yamaha GPS signal. It's really annoying as once the message is confirmed, the autopilot immediately shuts off and the engine goes to idle. The only way I have found to reset it is to power everything down and bring it all back up. It does not seem to clear on its own. Any thoughts or ideas appreciated? I know I'm not alone with this issue, it's just that I haven't found any reliable solutions online.

 

[gbgrady208]

By the way, this is on my 2021 Marlin 300 with Yamaha 300's.

 

[seasick]

When you say 'Yamaha GPS antenna' do you mean the built-in antenna on the CL7?
The internal antenna in the CL7 may not be the best option since it is probably not as reliable as an external signal would be.
Is the issue something new or has it always acted up.

 

[gbgrady208]

The antenna is an externally mounted yamaha labeled antenna on the roof. It has happened very rarely in the past, but yesterday it was occurring off and on all day long completely disrupting our ability to fish. I didn't time it, but it probably lost the signal every 45-90 minutes through the day. The Garmin devices use their own GPS antenna as does the VHF radio and none of those were losing signals.

 

[seasick]

I suppose in that case I would take a close look at all the connection's between the antenna and the CL7. I do not know how to test the antenna specifically but it seem that the signal is dropping out.

 

[gbgrady208]

I will check the connections at both ends - - always a chance water got into the antenna housing on the top of the boat. It also dawned on me that this mostly happens when I'm fast trolling (12 - 15 MPH) which puts the boat at an odd angle since it's not on plane. It never does it on plane. I wonder if my radar dome is blocking the signal at this angle or perhaps even the front part of the top. I may have to remount it on an antenna post or move it to a different spot on the roof. I'm also going to check with my dealer and see if there are any software updates for helm master that address this. I appreciate the input and suggestion - - thank you!!!

 

[seasick]

The antenna (and all GPS receivers) need a clear view of the skies, particularly the southern sky. The signal strength is also reduced by things like walls, trees, rain, and most likely radar domes
It did work better a while back you said, so although relocating it might help, something else is going on. The antennas do go bad on occasion but check the connections first.

 

[Sauza45]

I just had this same problem on my 2022 canyon, Don't know if the problem was the battery but mine were weak. replace the battery's and all is good now. Mine would reset on its own, I did not have to cycle the power.

 

[seasick]

I just had this same problem on my 2022 canyon, Don't know if the problem was the battery but mine were weak. replace the battery's and all is good now. Mine would reset on its own, I did not have to cycle the power.

I bet it would reset when you turned on a load or cranked over the motors. Most of the plotter units as well as other electronics, have a low voltage threshold that when reached will either reboot or shut down the unit. The units may or may not log an error depending on whether that alarm is enabled.
I see these events often in cases where the boat has recently added something new like a new or second plotter (or even a new stereo system. The extra current draw results in more voltage drop at the accessory bus and at some point low voltage causes something to reset.

 

[Beyond A Wake]

Why not use the GPS signal from GArmin? THey are connected and I believe there is a selector for internal or external signal. On my 2019 I have not noticed that the CL7 ever would have fallen off, it will disable the Autopilot if signal is too low, I guess that happened once for me but I have an older version so my AP is Raymarine.

If it worked earlier, then just focus on what would have changed.
My Radar started to only show up to 2NM distance whatever the distance setting was. Nothing had changed and it turned out to be a device failure so gets replaced as we speak. So it could be device failure as well. Remember there are no new CL7 available anywhere so replacement would be CL5 I was told at FLIBS by Yamaha. So take care of them..........


H

 

[Sauza45]

The helm master uses a separate antenna mounted on the hard top. I tried switching to the internal antenna and it made no difference. I also looked at the satellites to see how many I was picking up. I had several showing, that's what got me to start looking at other things. Checking all connections and found nothing wrong, nothing new added. Checking the battery's and found after on charge from shore power for 3 days they both only showed 12.3 volts. I replaced both battery's and it went away. Not sure if that was the trouble but I figured the battery's needed replace anyway. Fishing 60 miles out last thing I want is a bad battery. Yes when it was reading GPS unstable I lost my fishpoint setting and auto pilot.

 

[Beyond A Wake]

+
Another example of the sensitivity to low voltage or just lower voltage. This is where I don't understand why the alternators would not be enough while motors are running, as long as batteries are strong enough to get it all running.
Great that you got it sorted out with an easy fix.

H

 

[seasick]

+
Another example of the sensitivity to low voltage or just lower voltage. This is where I don't understand why the alternators would not be enough while motors are running, as long as batteries are strong enough to get it all running.
Great that you got it sorted out with an easy fix.

H

Your point is a good one.
The voltage when the motors are running ( not necessarily at idle) should be higher than the resting ( no loads connected) voltage.
I am curious, how and where did you measure the resting battery voltage?

If you measured at the helm and things were running, the 12.3 is a good reading. Your electronics and wiring are engineered to tolerate a 3% voltage drop off of the nominal 12 volts. That means that if your voltage at the unit in question was higher than 11.64 volts, it should work fine.

 

[Hookup1]

Even with the problem “fixed” you should put a multimeter on the batteries and check charging system both engines and battery charger. I have had problems with inline fuses at the battery blow and create lots of confusion. New batteries should be 12.8 volts engines off charger off. Start engines should be 13.1 volts. Turn engines off turn battery charger on. Should be 13.1 volts.

 

[seasick]

I would consider any voltage greater than 12.4 volts to represent fully charged. To be a bit more accurate, the type of battery, flooded, agm etc., affects the 100% charge state. In addition, that voltage changes as temperatures go down.

I hop we don't get into the "batteries left on a concrete floor" discussion