Happy New Year Guys, I need some help in solving a problem with my 2001 282 Sailfish. It was equipped by the previous owner with a Garmin 4210 Chartplotter and a Raymarine Autopilot ST6001+ . I am still trying to gain some knowledge as to how all this stuff works. Ever since I acquired the boat 2yrs ago I have noticed that the Chartplotter has a difficult time knowing what the heading is while drifting over a fishing hole or moving at idle. Another fisherman at the marina mentioned that there is a Bearing/Heading Sensor that may need to be replaced. Does this sound correct. Is this typically hooked up to the Chartplotter or the Autopilot. As a side note the Autopilot has not worked since I purchased the boat and immediately disengages when activated and flashes “HYD” . Any suggestions/wisdom will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jamie
Help with Heading /Bearing sensor on 282 Sailfish
- Thread starter JamesT
- Start date
Jamie, Happy New Year! There are four main components to your autopilot system: #1 control head (ST6001+ what you can see), #2 course computer (hidden somewhere), #3 heading sensor (flux gate sensor) (hidden somewhere away from iron) and #4 autopilot hydraulic pump (also hidden). The course computer is the brains. It is connected to the control head, heading sensor and autopilot pump and maybe the 4210. It can talk to your Garmin 4210 if connected, usually via NMEA 0183 bus for your model. The course computer is controlled by the control head (what you see) and compares heading from the sensor (or track from the 4210) to run the pump and steer the boat.
Recommend you get the manual for the ST6001+ from the internet and troubleshoot that way. That control head is compatible with several different course computers. Find your and determine what model it is. Maybe a SmartPilot. Some are simple (S1) and aren't real accurate. Some (S3) had yaw rate sensors either internal of a separate box and work much better. The serial number will tell you. The heading sensor also provides heading to the 4210 if connected. Without that, the 4210 has to use GPS and motion to decide COG (course over ground) and doesn't really know the heading.
Gives you a place to start!
Good luck!
Recommend you get the manual for the ST6001+ from the internet and troubleshoot that way. That control head is compatible with several different course computers. Find your and determine what model it is. Maybe a SmartPilot. Some are simple (S1) and aren't real accurate. Some (S3) had yaw rate sensors either internal of a separate box and work much better. The serial number will tell you. The heading sensor also provides heading to the 4210 if connected. Without that, the 4210 has to use GPS and motion to decide COG (course over ground) and doesn't really know the heading.
Gives you a place to start!
Good luck!
What you're experiencing with your chartplotter is normal. GPS heading can only be determined by movement -- constantly comparing your last position to the new position. Given those slow speeds... and that the gps antenna isn't a compass... it has a tough time knowing which way the boat is facing. It can track your movment well enough and show that you're drifting North (for example) - but it won't know which way the boat is actually facing.
Fishtales
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
- Messages
- 7,727
- Reaction score
- 1,202
- Points
- 113
Agree with Dennis on this. Take the autopilot out of this for a minute. The flux gate sensor aka heading sensor or gyro assists with heading accuracy and allows radar/chart overlay accurately. Without the gyro, you would experience errors. Do you have this function? If so, see if it is accurate (would need to know the area well). There are adjustments in the MFD to dial this in.
Adding the autopilot into the equation, they gyro provides the same function. So if the gyro is not working or tuning settings are incorrect, you could have issues determining heading on the drift.
Adding the autopilot into the equation, they gyro provides the same function. So if the gyro is not working or tuning settings are incorrect, you could have issues determining heading on the drift.
We are all saying the same thing. Your MFD (4210) cannot determine heading, only course. Magnetic heading is only which way the bow is pointing. Course is the direction the boat is moving. The 4210 can get heading info from a flux gate compass which is typically a Raymarine M81190 or equivalent. If connected, it will make your boat symbol on the MFD point in the correct direction, regardless of course. Garmin also makes a standalone gyro called a Steady Cast Heading Sensor that gives your MFD a source to stabilize the MFD when drifting, etc. I have one on my Scout since I don't have an autopilot and the associated fluxgate magnetic compass.
Fishtales
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
- Messages
- 7,727
- Reaction score
- 1,202
- Points
- 113
Agree... Here is the link to the Raymarine heading sensor that is usually buried in the hull somewhere. It connects to a small electronics box and then to the MFD.
www.wholesalemarine.com
I had a KVH heading sensor in a previous boat, it was the size of a big can of stewed tomatos (easy to find if you have space for it). Not sure what the equivalent Garmin would look like.
Raymarine Fluxgate Compass Module
The Raymarine Fluxgate Compass Module features Box Dimensions: 3"H x 7"W x 10"L WT: 1.2 lbs. Shop now at Wholesale Marine.
www.wholesalemarine.com
I had a KVH heading sensor in a previous boat, it was the size of a big can of stewed tomatos (easy to find if you have space for it). Not sure what the equivalent Garmin would look like.
Thanks for your help guys. I will get down to the boat this weekend to investigate a little more. I just ordered a new Raymarine M81190 and will install it to try to eliminate the problem. Thanks again.
James, You got good advice on what will give your MFD the input for heading. When you install the new gyro, you will be connecting the wires to the course computer. Be sure to see if you can use the wires from the old gyro to pull the new wires in before you remove them. It may make it a lot easier. While you have the cover off, check the fuse for the autopilot pump. It is a 30 amp fuse and if it is blown, that could explain the HYD warning you see. I'm not sure of that because I have never seen it on mine. I installed a Raymarine Smartpilot S2G course computer with a ST6002 controller. If you don't already have the installation manual it can be downloaded from Raymarine. It has everything you need to know about calibration, which you should do when replacing the gyro.
Ok guys, I made it to the boat today and pulled all the panels to see what was installed by the previous owner. I have a Garmin 4210 MFD with Garmin sonar and Radar attached. I have a Raymarine ST5000+ installed with a ray marine Heading Sensor installed and connected. There is no connection from the ST5000+ to the Garmin 4210 and therefore no Heading / Bearing information being received. This explains why my Heading is off when idling or drifting across a fishing hole. Neither of the SeaTalk ports are occupied on the ST5000+. The Garmin MFD has one Garmin Network connection available. Both the NMEA 2K and NMEA183 ports are occupied on the Garmin. My question is - Is there a way to connect the ST5000+ to the Garmin 4210 so that the MFD receives Heading information from the FluxGate Compass.
One other question. I was unable to locate the AutoPilot pump. I even pulled the Deck cover and only saw gas tanks. Where would I look for the pump and what do the pros typically use in the way of silicone/caulk to seal up the cover when replacing?
Doc Stressor
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,178
- Reaction score
- 289
- Points
- 83
- Location
- Homosassa, FL
- Model
- Seafarer
You initially said you had the ST6000+ which is significantly different from the ST5000+. If I assume you have the ST5000+, the Sea Talk bus on the back of your ST5000+ is Raymarine's proprietary data bus. You may not have a separate course computer. To translate Sea Talk into NMEA 2000 you can install an adapter that will connect to your NMEA 2000 bus and provide info to your 4210. The ST5000+ has a basic course computer inside and controls the autopilot pump directly. You could trace the heavier wires from the ST5000+ to find the pump and I suspect there is a heavier fuse somewhere in that system as well. The Garmin network is another proprietary network and is used for your radar and/or sonar.
Thanks for the responses guys. I haven’t seen the pump when looking through the access panels in the cuddy. I will try looking in the Aft today. What would you recommend resealing the deck cover with?
Fishtales
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
- Messages
- 7,727
- Reaction score
- 1,202
- Points
- 113
The pump could be anywhere as this was a post build upgrade. I'd start aft and look for lines from the AP. You can seal the deck cover with GE Silicone Almond color sealer (avail at HD or Lowes). Pretty much what everyone including dealers use to reseal areas that you are in and out of.
If you translate the Sea Talk with an adapter to NMEA 2000 or 0183 your Garmin 4210 should get heading. I have a Raymarine with a Garmin 5212 and it gets heading from the heading sensor via the autopilot thru a NMEA 0183 bus from the autopilot course computer.