Installing Brass Drain Tubes

[mashenden]

After noticing a piece of the original brass drain tube was starting to break off in the engine well area of my '93 Seafarer, I realized I should replace mine, particularly given the 4 stoke is reported to push the two lower scuppers below the water line and it will be left in the water for the season.

In case anyone is interested, I am using 1 1/4" OD diameter brass tubing from McMaster-Carr, part # 8950K832 ($42 for 3' section) and a flange tool by Moeller part # 02070400 (both BoatFix and LowCostBoatingStore.com had this part for a good price: $30 excluding shipping).

Plans are to remove the old tubes, widen the hole a bit to allow room for a few layers of epoxy paste to seal the wood end grain, then redrill for 1.25". Once that is done I will install the new tubes using 5200 and the flange tool. I am told I should heat the tube up and drop it into a bucket of water prior to installing to soften it so the flange will form without splitting.

I'll report back on how things go. If anyone has any further advice, please let me know.

 

[Tucker]

I did the same job last year. Sold the tool to a guy here, gradywhiteman, try getting in contact with him and I'm sure he sell it cheap. When getting the tool read the directions and make note of the tapered flaring ends, they are different. I used 4200 in mine in case they had to come out. If yours are coming apart you can bet some water got into the transom. Might want to have some penetrating epoxy handy. Sounds like you got the job covered.

 

[mashenden]

I did the same job last year. Sold the tool to a guy here, gradywhiteman, try getting in contact with him and I'm sure he sell it cheap. When getting the tool read the directions and make note of the tapered flaring ends, they are different. I used 4200 in mine in case they had to come out. If yours are coming apart you can bet some water got into the transom. Might want to have some penetrating epoxy handy. Sounds like you got the job covered.

Good points. Thank you. I am hoping for the best on how damp the transom will be. It has not been in the water much in recent time, but then again, rain gets to one end of these tubes. I really appreciate the notice about the flaring ends being different.

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Why not use a pvc pipe instead of brass tube. PVC will never brake or rot out. All you have to do is sand with 80 grit the outside to make it rough, then 5200 or epoxy will hold it in place.
FWIW, you can make your own flare tool for almost no $'s. Get two truck tire nuts, a piece of threaded rod and some washers and you are in business.

 

[fishhrd]

I have a 2007 222 that I need to install new transom tubes in. Grady sent me the brass thru hulls but I have not put them in yet. I need to get the tool.

 

[Tucker]

You guys need to contact gradywhiteman. I bet he'll "pass on" the tool to Great Grady guys.

 

[mashenden]

Why not use a pvc pipe instead of brass tube. PVC will never brake or rot out. All you have to do is sand with 80 grit the outside to make it rough, then 5200 or epoxy will hold it in place.
FWIW, you can make your own flare tool for almost no $'s. Get two truck tire nuts, a piece of threaded rod and some washers and you are in business.

Any cons to using PVC pipe - anyone??

I sure wish I had seen the tire nut solution before ordering the $40 tool. I can see how that would work just fine. Oh well.

I have a 2007 222 that I need to install new transom tubes in. Grady sent me the brass thru hulls but I have not put them in yet. I need to get the tool.

Where in VA do you live? I am in Richmond, north near Va Ctr Commons mall and/or Lancaster Co near Lively. I would be glad to loan it (with a refundable deposit, of course ).

 

[fishhrd]

I live in West Point. Do you normally come through WP on your way to the river or 360?

 

[mashenden]

I live in West Point. Do you normally come through WP on your way to the river or 360?

Normally 360 but it is 6.1 or half a dozen, so I could easily take the WP route - it would be a nice change. When I have mine done I'll let you know and we can figure something out.

 

[fishhrd]

Sounds good thank you
Matt

 

[Tucker]

Got nothing against the PVC tubes. Brass is stock. I guess we can get in the same discussion with pvc vs brass thruhulls. Grady likes brass. I chose not to go the lug nut route. If you see the tool you'll see how it does a better job. One side of the flare is almost like a swedging tool. It holds the ID when the flaring is done.

 

[mashenden]

Got nothing against the PVC tubes. Brass is stock. I guess we can get in the same discussion with pvc vs brass thruhulls. Grady likes brass. I chose not to go the lug nut route. If you see the tool you'll see how it does a better job. One side of the flare is almost like a swedging tool. It holds the ID when the flaring is done.

Agreed - After doing some googling on brass vs. PVC, starting another such debate is not likely to clear anything up. It's a matter of preference. Pros, cons and questionable rational in all directions. For me, I had already taken the plunge to order brass and a tool before I even gave PVC a thought so I'm going to forge onward with brass.

Regarding the tool, you may find this interesting. I received mine today and the instructions (as well as another post) indicated that the tool was supposed to come with two different types of flanging fixtures - one "fitted" and the other "sloped", BUT both of mine were exactly the same. I called Moeller about it and the explanation was that the tool with different fixtures is only for aluminum flanges, which are thinner, and that the tool for brass flanges should be the same. I am suspect of that explanation - I have to say, $30 for a bolt and two thingys that certainly look like "truck lugs", I do expect a good tool and instructions that do not cause concern.

So far my only real regret is that I wish I had known about the Truck Lug approach - I think that would have cost less and worked just fine, assuming they make lugs large enough for 1.25" tubing.

I have used the tool to flare one end of a piece of tubing and it worked well. I did heat it up prior and dropped it into water - when flanging it did not split. At the price of brass I don't think I'll take a chance of skipping that step.

More on my success on using the tool after this weekend.

 

[richie rich]

They used brass originally because it sealed a hole quickly and looked "dressed up" a bit.....since you're sealing the hole first with resin and glass, the drain tube itself becomes cosmetic.....whether its brass or pvc or pre-formed fiberglass, it makes no difference.....boat MFG's didnt take the time to drill and fill the hole with fiberglass, so this was the quick method of doing so.....they usually failed and let water into the wood core which also failed, long-term.....seal the holes properly and use whatever you think looks good...the transom will last a long time.

 

[mashenden]

They used brass originally because it sealed a hole quickly and looked "dressed up" a bit.....since you're sealing the hole first with resin and glass, the drain tube itself becomes cosmetic.....whether its brass or pvc or pre-formed fiberglass, it makes no difference.....boat MFG's didnt take the time to drill and fill the hole with fiberglass, so this was the quick method of doing so.....they usually failed and let water into the wood core which also failed, long-term.....seal the holes properly and use whatever you think looks good...the transom will last a long time.

That sums it up nicely.

I have to wonder why wood is still used anywhere on a fiberglass boat by builders nowadays, particularly the transoom, and that comes from a guy that loves wooden boats. I suppose the main reasons are to cut costs since a transom made of solid epoxy/glass would cost more as well as a certain amount of needing boats to expire over time so we will by new ones.

 

[Tucker]

I have to wonder why wood is still used anywhere on a fiberglass boat by builders nowadays, particularly the transoom, and that comes from a guy that loves wooden boats. I suppose the main reasons are to cut costs since a transom made of solid epoxy/glass would cost more as well as a certain amount of needing boats to expire over time so we will by new ones.[/quote]

That's a huge question. Though I bet wood is more expensive considering all the layout and encapsulating I think Grady believes wood is stronger.

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Well, is not only Grady that uses wood in their boats, other million dollar yacht companies also use wood stringers and transoms. If you ask me, i think that plywood has the best properties for boat building, it flexes but doesn't crack and is strong enough to do the job.

 

[mashenden]

Well, is not only Grady that uses wood in their boats, other million dollar yacht companies also use wood stringers and transoms. If you ask me, i think that plywood has the best properties for boat building, it flexes but doesn't crack and is strong enough to do the job.

Yep, you are right... most boat builders do use ply in the transom. So you are thinking that a solid epoxy and glass transom may be too unforgiving to the prolonged forces of a motor? Could be, could be. But still, so many eventually end up with wood rot from water intrusion, unless an almost obsessive level of caution is taken to make sure anything penetrating the fiberglass cover is not properly sealed and maintained that way.

BTW, in case anyone cares, this weekend I got the old tubes out. The wood looked very dry. Next, I reamed the holes out a bit and added two layers of epoxy to seal the wood end grain - the first layer without anything to thicken it so it would soak in better. Then after it had set up, I was unable to resist the urge to launch for a sea trial to test the new motor/tank setup - in a word "awesome". Next week I'll finish another layer or two of epoxy in the drain holes, then install the new tubes.

 

[Salinity Now]

What difference did you notice on the scupper positioning? Were they deeper in the water? Nice thread BTW, I have some that need replacing on my 265.

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

In my opinion this is the best way to prevent rot a plywood transom.

What i did was on all thruhulls and/or screws that go to the transom i overdrill by double the width of the hole needed, then filled with thickened epoxy, then drill for your regular screws, bolts and/or thruhulls.

 

[mashenden]

What difference did you notice on the scupper positioning? Were they deeper in the water? Nice thread BTW, I have some that need replacing on my 265.

Thank you - I like to document what I find as it could be useful to others. I knew the new 4 stroke would lower the stern because it is heavier, as well as being a higher HP, than the previous two stroke. Also I needed to consider that my new tank is further forward and I will be removing the old tank once I have siphoned off all the old "bad" gas (converting space to storage). Theory being that moving the weight of the fuel forward would help to counterbalance the added weight of the engine.

But to specifically answer your question, the two outboard scuppers are about half emerged when at dock without anybody on board. The inner scuppers (engine well) are still above the waterline. With respect to my bottom paint line, I raised it about 1.5" at the stern tapering down as I move forward where I met the previous paint line at the point where the line goes under the chimes toward the deep V. This was a SWAG that worked out to be exactly where I would have put it had I done a sea trial before painting the bottom.

In my opinion this is the best way to prevent rot a plywood transom.
What i did was on all thruhulls and/or screws that go to the transom i overdrill by double the width of the hole needed, then filled with thickened epoxy, then drill for your regular screws, bolts and/or thruhulls.

Agree fully. I realized I was taking a short cut because I wanted to float the boat. With that behind me now, instead of finishing the thinner epoxy approach around the screwholes, next weekend I will do drill out all of the screwholes associated with the scupper repairs. I found that farm fence supply stores sell fiberglass rod for a song. In the past I have drilled the holes out to the diameter of the rod, then epoxy a piece of rod into the hole, which is then drilled with a smaller pilot hole for the screws. The objective being if water works past the silicone sealant around the screws, it gets to epoxy or fiberglass rod, rather than to the wood transom. This approach works well, except I found that I need to use a grinder disk to cut the glass rod because it will eat up a Sazall blade in no time.

So one question to anyone that knows - I found that only the inner scuppers had brass tubes, and the outer scuppers that connect to the floor drains appeared to be thru-hulls that are all plastic. Is there anything to do maintenance-wise on these other than seal the 4 screw holes? Taking the whole thru-hull out to reseal seems a bit excessive but if they are notorious for leaking I will, but if not, I hope to defer that chore for the season.