Livewell pump wiring

[Bern73]

Hi all,

My boat, 1999 209 Escape CC. The livewell and bilge pump were not working when I purchased the boat. First thing I did was replace the bilge pump. The livewell I decided to wait on as I needed to pull the access panel and just wanted to get out fishing. Recently I decided that I needed to replace all the chaulk around the console, aft access panel etc so since I was going to do this, I decided to remove the panel and replace the livewell pump. I checked the pump and it was getting 12 V so decided the pump was bad. Removed and replaced. Connected the wires and nothing. Checked the pump by jumping it directly to the battery and pump ran. Checked the old power and ground wires, 12V. Ok connected to pump again and the voltage drops to zero. So as soon as you connect the wires (brown hot and black ground) to the new pump and hit the switch on console, voltage drops to zero. Now I'm stumped. I'm not an electrician but I am guessing this means a short in the power or ground wire between the switch and the livewell pump. Should I just run a new 14 gauge wire (red and black) between the rocker panel switch and livewell pump? Did some research and I believe that the power (hot) wire runs to switch and the ground wire to the ground bar in the console. Is this correct? I was going to try it first before I snake the new wire thru the boat. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[SkunkBoat]

Well, based on your description, if there was a short (or an open) it would have be there regardless of the new pump. But.. You say without pump there is 12volt on wiring with switch on and 0 v with switch off. Are you measuring across the pair of wires or are you using a nearby ground?

Did you test at the switch also?


yes the switch only has the +12. The black wires go to negative bus “somewhere “

 

[Bern73]

Thank you for the reply. Yes, 12V on the wiring with the switch 'on' and 0V with the switch 'off'. I have measured the voltage using a multimeter. I attach the positive lead to the brown wire and negative lead from meter to the ground (black) wire and turn on the switch. Should I test by connecting + lead from meter to brown wire and attach the black lead from meter to the battery or somewhere else to ground? I did not test the switch but I can when I get home.

 

[SkunkBoat]

OK good. In that way, you tested both wires. If you used a battery ground, you would be bypassing the black wire.
So no, you don't need to measure using the neg battery terminal.

So the motor does not run when connected to both wires but you measure 12v with no pump connected and switch on.
The pump runs when connected to the battery.

It is sometimes possible to read 12V with no load but still not be able to run a pump or horn. You can have a corroded wire (either one or both) or bad or corroded connector on the switch or a corroded fuseholder.
There could be a corroded butt splice in the wire(s).

A quick thing to try is using the neg battery terminal for the - pump connection while using the brown wire for the + pump connection. This bypasses the black wire. If it runs, the black wire (or connection) is suspect.
If it doesn't run, you can try the opposite. Connect the -pump wire to the black wire and touch the + battery with the + pump wire. This bypasses the brown wire and the switch.If it runs then, the brown wire or switch is suspect..

You can take the pump up to the switch and do the same kind of testing there, bypassing all the wire.

Definitely use eyeballs on all of the connections...switch, ground bus, fuse holder(or breaker)

You have a 24 yo boat. I would suggest you look hard at all fuse panels. If they are blade type fuses, remove some and look for green corrosion on the fuse and in the socket.
IMO, a 20year old fusepanel should be replaced. They cause the gremlins that frustrate many boaters.
Old switch panels are pretty much the same.

If you have the old style glass fuses, for godsake get rid of them.

 

[seasick]

It is sometimes possible to read 12V with no load but still not be able to run a pump or horn. You can have a corroded wire (either one or both) or bad or corroded connector on the switch or a corroded fuseholder.
There could be a corroded butt splice in the wire(s).

Get a 12v test lamp. That is much better for testing since the bulb draws some current. As mentioned above, it is possible to measure voltage but still have bad connections since digital meters draw very little current.

Since both pumps weren't working, there is a possibility that a ground wire problem is your issue since the ground circuits are often shared by multiple devices.
Your testing checked juice and ground at the switch but the rest of the wiring was not tested especially the grounds.

For your bilge pump, the switch at the helm only supplies the manual mode. The automatic bilge feature is powered from a separate 12v source, directly at the battery or the battery switch. It is not switched and is always live. Per regulations it will also have an inline over current protection device ( a fuse).
.

 

[Bern73]

Thank you all for the replies. It was helpful. Figured out the problem, it was the circuit breaker. The connections are very corroded. I bypassed it and the pump runs perfectly. For now, I'm going to put an inline fuse in the power line running to the switch so I can keep fishing thru the fall/early winter (striper, specs and red drum). Or can you get replacement circuit breakers. I attached a picture of the old one. It's white.

Come winter break, I'm going to look into replacing the entire switch panel.

Question: what is the best place to order a panel that'll fit my Grady. I attached pics of the switch panel.

Thanks again.

 

[Bern73]

Foe some reason it won't let upload the photos using my phone. Says they're too large even after I resize them. I'll do it later from laptop.

 

[Bern73]

Pictures of the bad circuit breaker (white) and the switch panel. Plan on replacing the entire panel during the winter. Any suggestions on where to get a replacement panel/switches?

Second question, is there anywhere to get a replacement circuit breaker to get me thru until I replace the panel? Or should I just put an inline fuse in the power line running into the switch.

Thanks

 

[glacierbaze]

Newwire for new panels.

Search results for query: newwire

www.greatgrady.com

 

[Sardinia306Bimini]

Spade connectors are always a pita with short life span.
On my Venture 34 i replaced al rocker switches with toggle switches with a cable instead of spade connectors.
The two side panels where made by NewWire and they did a great job, they make either the panel only or with all switches installed and labeled, including custom signs.

Chris

 

[SkunkBoat]

Read the breaker. Its probably a 10A or 15A. They are readily available on amazon https://www.amazon.com/SEACHOICE-13131-Button-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B0002UENSS/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1JJDE7Q45VEQ8&keywords=15A+marine+breaker&qid=1700175352&sprefix=15a+marine+breaker,aps,99&sr=8-10


Or you can use a rarley used one off your panel...like Wiper or Courtesy light...until you make a new panel.

New Wire Marine makes nice panels. Etched/ LED Backlit Contura switches are nice.

You have the old "Euro Oval" switches that were CRAP! I had them. Had New Wire make a prewired panel. Worth it to get all new jumpers and breakers and switches.

btw, the cutout for the Euro oval switches is slightly smaller than new Contura rockers which makes replacing them into your old panel a project. Another reason to get the whole thing made...

 

[glacierbaze]

Amazon.com

 

[Oceantroller]

Pictures of the bad circuit breaker (white) and the switch panel. Plan on replacing the entire panel during the winter. Any suggestions on where to get a replacement panel/switches?

Second question, is there anywhere to get a replacement circuit breaker to get me thru until I replace the panel? Or should I just put an inline fuse in the power line running into the switch.

ThanksView attachment 31898

 

[Oceantroller]

I just had New Wire make a panel for my 249 Fisherman to get rid of fuses and old switches. I would highly recommend sending them the old panel . I did not and will have to make a few minor adjustments to get it fitting properly but I don't think it will be a problem