NOAA Small Craft Advisory Question

SmokyMtnGrady

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Hi Ya'll:
I have been stuck in port for a few days here in the Keys. We have had a few days of 20 knt winds gusting to 35 in squally storms. Seas offshore are up to 7 feet higher in the Gulf Stream. NOAA has issued small craft advisory conditions. I have long wondered what is the threshold defining how big a small craft is? Is it 30 feet and under, 40 feet and under, 50 feet and under? What exactly is a small craft? Anybody know?
 

gerrys

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A small craft advisory is a type of warning issued by the National Weather Service in the United States, most frequently in coastal areas. It is issued when winds have reached, or are expected to reach within 12 hours, a speed marginally less than that which is considered gale force.

Exact parameters for what wind speed triggers the advisory have been changed over time. Until the late 1960s, a range of 32 to 38 miles per hour (or 28 to 33 knots) was observed; then the lower limit was reduced to 23 miles per hour (20 knots). Today, however, it is more common in most places to use 25 to 38 miles per hour (22 to 33 knots) as the standard, thus neatly encompassing the combined ranges of forces 6 and 7 on the Beaufort scale.

Occasionally an informal lesser advisory, known as "small craft exercise caution", is issued for wind speeds that are somewhat lighter than those which call for a small craft advisory. Criteria for this vary in different localities; sometimes a range of 19 to 24 miles per hour (17 to 21 knots) is observed, or in some places 17 to 23 miles per hour (15 to 19 knots) may be used.

The insignia denoting a small craft advisory is one red, triangular flag (two such flags, one placed above the other, signify a gale warning).

The National Weather Service does not specifically identify what constitutes a "small craft", although the United States Coast Guard informally assigns the designation to boats with a total length of less than 33 feet (10 m).

Sometimes the term wind advisory is used in place of "small craft advisory" when winds of the same force are occurring at, or being forecast for, inland locations. A formal lake wind advisory is issued for winds just below this range, because unobstructed winds across the open waters of a lake will normally be faster than across land.
 

fishingFINattic

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Not sure if wind is the deciding factor for small craft with NOAA-
A small craft is issued here in NewEngland often, and it usually is when the wave height is very close to the wave period -
I have seen small crafts issued when seas were 3-5 foot - but the period was 3 seconds- I have also seen small craft with 8-10 footseas and no wind-

Wind IS usually an added factor-

7 foot seas and 20 knots winds - you would be nuts here to go out!

As mentioned above - it appears that the 20 knot is the magic number when the seas transform from fun to not so fun! Dont get me wrong, not every 20 knots windy day is rough, but that is my rule of thumb - 15knot or less - okay , 20 knots or more forget it-

Also we have a local buoy 44017 that is 22 miles out - when the period = wave height that is another indication of no go!
4 foot seas 4 seconds apart = bad day
5 foot seas 10 seconds apart = nice day

And EVERY Grady would be considered a small craft!

Tim
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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Wow, thanks guys for the detailed description of the ins/out of issueing a small craft advisory. I was wondering what the definition of a small craft is...if the coast guard says 30 feet and under, then I guess it is.
 

Jeff Mauro

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Small Craft

A "Small Craft" is any craft that does not need to be out at sea during the warning period.
 

ocnslr

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I agree with all the posts above, but would like to add another factor.

I quality vessel, well-equipped, may still not belong out on a snotty day, if the operator is overall inexperienced, or just inexperienced with that vessel.

Conversely, a "small" vessel may be OK on a snotty day, in the hands of an experienced skipper who knows the seas, the weather, and the boat.

Just trying to add this additional dynamic to the decision.

So, if you are on the "less-experienced" end of the scale, perhaps you shouldn't venture out on a marginal day. Wait until you have gained some additional experience overall, as well as on that great 228 Grady.

Brian
 

ocnslr

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I'll use a second post to add an additional item.

I have always used a simple approach to evaluating the seas.

Take the period in seconds and divide it by the height in feet. If the quotient is 2 or less, it will be a tough day in a small boat.

We have almost 1400 hours under power in our 2002 Islander, with dozens of trips to the Norfolk Canyon, over 75nm offshore.

When I have pushed the limits of the mathematical evaluation above, I have almost always regretted my decision.

Brian
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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I have been boating on my own boat for 10 years now, excluding a lifetime being a paddler in canoes and kayaks. I understand snotty seas. I have long wondered what the term small craft meant by definition. I have been in 6 foot seas, not by choice, in my 192 and it was not enjoyable. It appears NOAA doesn't even know lol.....thanks Brian, I like that math you worked out..
 

Curmudgeon

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It appears NOAA doesn't even know lol..

When NOAA predicts the wind is gonna blow, they issue what's named 'Small Craft Advsory'. If you craft is small enough that you worry when the wind/seas are in the predicted range, the advisory should be a concern for you. If you're in a vessel where the predicted wind/seas are of no concern, it's not for you. "Small Craft" is just a name attached to a high wind/seas advisory ...
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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Then small craft is a useless designation. They should simply state the wind and sea state conditions and be done with warning or advising people. Let natural selection take its course :D
 

catch22

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SmokyMtnGrady said:
Then small craft is a useless designation. They should simply state the wind and sea state conditions and be done with warning or advising people. Let natural selection take its course :D

"Darwin advisory". :D
 

Curmudgeon

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They have to be called something, this one happens to be 'Small Craft Advisory'. And as sometimes happens, this one is usually printed in red and probably should be of some concern to a large percentage of boaters. Jeez, now we're down to natural selection because someone gets anal about a weather forecast label? :?
 

richie rich

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well, lets put it this way....I have gone out in small craft advisory in my 25 foot Sailfish...Although the boat handled it, it was not much fun for me and my passengers.....we fished, but we got really wet and tossed around......therefore, what's the point?
 

ahill

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A seasoned charter capt. said that 50% of the time heading out is no problem. Of the remaining 50%, 20% will be rough but you make it back unscathed, the next 15 % you go when you shouldn't & get back the last 15% don't go.
 

JUMPNJACK

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Well Spoken!

A lot of well spoken commentary there folks! My take is that if a Small Craft Advisory is in effect, it pretty much applies to all boats big and small. Those days are for ships! Nothing more exciting than summer in the Gulf of Mexico when NOAA sounds the alarm for all small craft to EVACUATE the Gulf of Mexico immediantly. It is always a mad scramble of everyone and everything getting the heck out of there! No questions asked! 8)
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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I find it curious as I just wanted to know if small craft was defined. The reading has been good though. It is interesting to read folks take on the conditions and so forth. As far as being anal, if small craft is wishy washy definition, then why use it? Am I being analytical? Perhaps, but I suspect somebody somewhere wants it undefined so some idiot can not come back and say hey my boat was 40 feet and you said it was safe...and it wasn't and I lost my boat, now I am going to lawyer up.....
 

uncljohn

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I'm pretty certain they say vessels under 20' in legth when they 'explain' a small-craft on the VHF weather channel.

Still, some "small-craft" days are ok in the Grady, some of them are better spent at the dock.
 

megabytes

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...
There is no precise definition of a small craft. Any vessel that may be adversely affected by Small Craft Advisory criteria should be considered a small craft. Other considerations include the experience of the vessel operator, and the type, overall size, and sea worthiness of the vessel. There is no legal definition of "small craft". The Small Craft Advisory is an advisory in Coastal Waters and Nearshore forecasts for sustained winds, frequent gusts, or sea/wave conditions, exceeding defined thresholds specific to geographic areas.
...

This quote from NOAA says it all. Off SE USA the criteria is generally 20kt winds and/or 6 ft seas. Believe me - it is no fun to be in that in ANY size GW. Remember this is not that occaisional larger wave. This is the average top 1/3. Statistics show you should expect to encounter waves up to twice significant wave height as stated in this heading for the offshore forecast (20-250 nm).

...
SEAS GIVEN AS SIGNIFICANT WAVE HEIGHT...WHICH IS THE AVERAGE
HEIGHT OF THE HIGHEST 1/3 OF THE WAVES. INDIVIDUAL WAVES MAY BE
MORE THAN TWICE THE SIGNIFICANT WAVE HEIGHT.
...

Bottom line: Unless you want to negotiate 6 ft seas with a few 12s thrown in, stay at the dock! :shock: