Not enough power?

[Cadeco]

So have you been back out on the boat with only yourself? Also, I wouldn't necessarily turn a blind eye to a single 350 like a Suzuki or a Mercury, especially if you're considering brand new. A single Suzuki 350 is approximately 727 lbs, compared to twin 150 Mercury's which will be your lightest twin setup at 455 lbs a piece, or over 900 lbs total. I'd save the 175+ lbs as well as likely save a bit of money going with a single motor as opposed to twins, and go with a single Suzuki 350. Just my opinion, of course. A single Mercury 350 outboard is even a few pounds lighter than the Suzuki at around 695 lbs.

Not yet, work and weather not cooperating.

 

[Cadeco]

So have you been back out on the boat with only yourself? Also, I wouldn't necessarily turn a blind eye to a single 350 like a Suzuki or a Mercury, especially if you're considering brand new. A single Suzuki 350 is approximately 727 lbs., compared to twin 150 Mercury's which will be your lightest twin setup at 455 lbs. a piece, or over 900 lbs. total. I'd save the 175+ lbs. as well as likely save a bit of money going with a single motor as opposed to twins, and go with a single Suzuki 350. Just my opinion, of course. A single Mercury 350 outboard is even a few pounds lighter than the Suzuki at around 695 lbs.

Weather and work did not help, but as soon as possible I will. - By the way I decided to get ( 2 ) two stroke motors (weight is an issue) and expect to do the change myself (Of course i will be here many times when doing it). Thanks

 

[deepdesire]

Wow never thought my post would cause so much debate. The 268 Islander is a long narrow beam heavy boat with a relatively deep vee hull. It takes a lot of HP to push it. When I purchased mine it had a Salt water series 2 single 250. I managed. I have been running the boat since 2006 with 2 new powerheads and in 2019 a Suzuki 300 AP. She has greatly benefitted from the 50 extra horsepower. If you want to pack your boat with people expect a reduction in performance. Seven people on my boat would be more than uncomfortable. To each their own.

 

[Frankie D]

Wow never thought my post would cause so much debate. The 268 Islander is a long narrow beam heavy boat with a relatively deep vee hull. It takes a lot of HP to push it. When I purchased mine it had a Salt water series 2 single 250. I managed. I have been running the boat since 2006 with 2 new powerheads and in 2019 a Suzuki 300 AP. She has greatly benefitted from the 50 extra horsepower. If you want to pack your boat with people expect a reduction in performance. Seven people on my boat would be more than uncomfortable. To each their own.

Anyone know which hole the single engine should be mounted on?

 

[Legend]

When u normally go out with one or 2 are you able to get to max out higher than 5200. The engine should be closer to 6K at max. Could be a prop size issue?

 

[Sardinia306Bimini]

Prop Slip @ 5000 rpm 2:1 reduction 17" pitch at 15mph is around 63%
Prop slip @ 5000 rpm 1.75 reduction and 17" pitch is 67%
Speed with high 25% slip should be between 30 and 34 mph, depending on gear reduction
The above values for slip are absurd high and mean that propeller is not biting at all.

If the boat is overloaded outboard should not be able to reach 5000 rpm except:
a) propeller is damaged
b) propeller has ways to small pitch or diameter
c) propeller is ventilating
d) spinning hub
e) too much weight on the stern making the boat unable to go over the hump and changed water flow ventilate the propeller

If the problem is still there, then it would be good to know what propeller OP @Cadeco would post what and what size propeller he is/was mounting, that would be helpful.
If the problem was solved, the it would be great to know how it was solved and/or what was the problem.

Chris

 

[Cadeco]

Hi to all. Last weekend I was finally able to go to the water. Instead of two people I had 4 (including myself), and it went well, but at some point there was a whistle and I brought down the throttle. After about 30 seconds later I did accelerate and no more whistle. Any way. I'm looking for a pair of used 200's (two stroke due to weight) HPDI/Optimax or E-Tec.-- Less weight/more power/ less maintenance.

 

[family affair]

Uh, I like where you are going with the idea to reduce maintenance. However, Ive got bad news for you if you think used twin 2 stroke anything will be less work. If power and simplicity are what you want, find a used 4.2 f250 -300 mechanically controlled version. Remove the f250, bolt on the 4.2 F whatever with the right prop and go boating.

 

[Sardinia306Bimini]

My first boat here in Sardinia was a brand new 1998 Boston Whaler 23 Outrage.
First we installed twin 150 carb'd Yamaha's, powerful but stinky, fuel hogs, loud, need 2 stroke oil and continuously fouled plugs
Then I swapped them with twin HDPI 150 and they where better but one exploded at WOT with a few hundred hours, reason for that was probably long times at low RPM and not using Ring Free so a piston ring hooked at the exhaust opening and the whole block got trashed.

Then I put twin F150 and the boat was more stern heavy and I moved the 4 100Ah batteries from the stern inside the console and solved this problem. Silent, fuel efficient, no fouled plugs, no stinky smoke and still going strong with new owner.

Maintenance was same, carb'ed ones was worst as call maintenance is important.

After that I had a lot of 4 strokes and could always fix the stern heavy with shifting weight and I never ever would go back to 2 strokes, never ever.

If you believe that 2 strokes are the ticket, then exclude E-Tecs immediately and baby your HDPI with religiously use of Ring Free.

Also, I'm not really sure how much weight you save and if it solves your problem installing two strokes, most weight reduction would be a single 4 stroke.

Chris

 

[Cadeco]

Ok Guys
Here is mainly why!

My Islander is rated for no more than 400 hp. When it was built (1998), the 4 strokes were on their infancy, On the brochures from that time it is shown w/ Ox66. I had the bright idea to buy another F250 and make twins, but, always but, after contacting GW I was told that would not be a good idea, and to have the 500 hp would create (probably) an insurance issue, and also the weight (for the transom) would be way too much. They gave me the idea to get a "new" 4 cylinders four stroke and I don't have the money for that. So, in order to get my 400 HP I need two 2 strokes (a lot lighter than 4 strokes), I'm looking to sale my F250 30" and buy 2 motors as I said on the first post above. That's the reason; I also looking/reading around found a common idea that 2 strokes are a lot easier to maintain, those are the reasons!
I would like to go to the Bahamas (Bimini specially), but not w/ a single on the back. By the way: I /m looking for the HPDI first( because would be easier to rigg), V-tec comes second (even knowing they are no longer made) a few friends have those and love those motors. - Of course, Mercury is third.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

First off... if you look at the 1998 brochure, there's actually a picture of a 268 Islander in there with a Yamaha 250 on it with 3 people onboard. Which if they can do it, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to. Second, there are other ways to get into that 350-400 hp range, which would be buying a used/new single 350/400 hp outboard. Yamaha started, and then stopped, making a 350 in I believe the mid 2010's, of which I believe the "C" version is the better of the models? Either that, or Suzuki makes a 350 hp outboard, and Mercury makes both a 350 as well as a 400 hp outboard. I'm not sure if there are any used outboards of that horsepower level available, but it might also be worth a look. Lastly, I wouldn't say that the 2 strokes necessarily are easier to maintain as they can have issues with bad gas or ethanol in the fuel. But if properly maintained, the ox66's as well as the HPDI's are known to be quite long lasting as well as dependable. The Mercury 350 or 400 weigh in at 695 lbs, whereas the Suzuki 350 is slightly more at 725 lbs. That being said, twin 200 ox66's are going to be between 420-490 lbs a piece depending on the model. Putting your total at 840 on up to almost 1k lbs. Having something on there that's at least 100 to almost potentially 300 lbs lighter is going to also help out quite a bit.

https://gradywhite.blob.core.windows.net/media/21325/1998.pdf

 

[Cadeco]

First off... if you look at the 1998 brochure, there's actually a picture of a 268 Islander in there with a Yamaha 250 on it with 3 people onboard. Which if they can do it, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to. Second, there are other ways to get into that 350-400 hp range, which would be buying a used/new single 350/400 hp outboard. Yamaha started, and then stopped, making a 350 in I believe the mid 2010's, of which I believe the "C" version is the better of the models? Either that, or Suzuki makes a 350 hp outboard, and Mercury makes both a 350 as well as a 400 hp outboard. I'm not sure if there are any used outboards of that horsepower level available, but it might also be worth a look. Lastly, I wouldn't say that the 2 strokes necessarily are easier to maintain as they can have issues with bad gas or ethanol in the fuel. But if properly maintained, the ox66's as well as the HPDI's are known to be quite long lasting as well as dependable. The Mercury 350 or 400 weigh in at 695 lbs, whereas the Suzuki 350 is slightly more at 725 lbs. That being said, twin 200 ox66's are going to be between 420-490 lbs a piece depending on the model. Putting your total at 840 on up to almost 1k lbs. Having something on there that's at least 100 to almost potentially 300 lbs lighter is going to also help out quite a bit.

https://gradywhite.blob.core.windows.net/media/21325/1998.pdf

Yes, I have seen that photo and that's what i said " an OX motor". You are "half correct" I could use a 350 ( Not good reviews on the 350 Yamaha), or Suzuki or Mercury, but you missed a very important point (to myself): The security of 2 motors to go out (like going to Bahamas). I rather have 2 motors w/ 900 lbs, than 1 motor w/ 800.lbs - Mercury Marine says: 695lbs dry is the lightest (I would guess a 20"), A Suzi is even worse on weight, but the problem is weight and safety for offshore runs . Thanks for your input but you missed a very important point.

 

[Hookup1]

You're correct 7 people is not absurd, but as you said" The specs are 400 hp. I was thinking of getting another 250 and be done, but the insurance would not like it! So, I'm in the process of looking for a pair of used 150's/175's or 200's (looking at 2 strokes for less maintenance and weight reduction)_

Ok Guys
Here is mainly why!

My Islander is rated for no more than 400 hp. When it was built (1998), the 4 strokes were on their infancy, On the brochures from that time it is shown w/ Ox66. I had the bright idea to buy another F250 and make twins, but, always but, after contacting GW I was told that would not be a good idea, and to have the 500 hp would create (probably) an insurance issue, and also the weight (for the transom) would be way too much. They gave me the idea to get a "new" 4 cylinders four stroke and I don't have the money for that. So, in order to get my 400 HP I need two 2 strokes (a lot lighter than 4 strokes), I'm looking to sale my F250 30" and buy 2 motors as I said on the first post above. That's the reason; I also looking/reading around found a common idea that 2 strokes are a lot easier to maintain, those are the reasons!
I would like to go to the Bahamas (Bimini specially), but not w/ a single on the back. By the way: I /m looking for the HPDI first( because would be easier to rigg), V-tec comes second (even knowing they are no longer made) a few friends have those and love those motors. - Of course, Mercury is third.

I have a '97 Islander repowered with Yamaha F150 in 2007. I made the switch to 4-blade props a few years back. The props were a game changer for me. No loss of top end performance - 28 knot cruise but significantly better mid-range. I have over 2,000 hours on them and they are running perfectly. At some point the motors will need replacing. I'll move to a higher HP 4-stroke 4-cylinder. 200 hp x 2 is my hull limit. I run a heavy boat with lots of gear, extended baitwell on transom. 4 people or less. Fishing in Islamorada in the Winter. I am quite pleased with my performance after the prop change.

Back to your boat. I understand where you are going with the switch to twins. You didn't talk about past performance. Is this boat new to you? Has it alway underperformed? 7 people is tight but it depends on where you are going. Crusing around Lake Worth to get to a Resturant - no problem. Running across to Bimini - not something I would do. But it's Captain's call.

When you do decide to repower have the transom and stringers gone over carefully. Inside and outside. Cracking under the rub rail, engine well and inside along stringers. When the engines are off is the time to decide in it needs to be done. Mine looks good but there are some suspicious cracks. I'm redoing mine in the Spring. I talked to other GG members who have done their Islander. They said you really couldn't tell how bad it was until you got into it. If there is suspicion it may make sense to buy another GW equipped the way you want.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Yes, I have seen that photo and that's what i said " an OX motor". You are "half correct" I could use a 350 ( Not good reviews on the 350 Yamaha), or Suzuki or Mercury, but you missed a very important point (to myself): The security of 2 motors to go out (like going to Bahamas). I rather have 2 motors w/ 900 lbs, than 1 motor w/ 800.lbs - Mercury Marine says: 695lbs dry is the lightest (I would guess a 20"), A Suzi is even worse on weight, but the problem is weight and safety for offshore runs . Thanks for your input but you missed a very important point.

Until essentially just now, you hadn't ever mentioned the safety aspect of it, and also not every wants nor needs twin motors, of which I would fall into that category. Twin motors are great for redundancy but even still, you could potentially have a fuel issue that could affect both motors. Also, depending on the size/weight of the boat, a single motor is in all likelihood not going to get the boat up on a plane by itself. Sure, it's great to run the throttle and steer the boat at the helm, but you might also look into a single main setup along with a kicker motor and maybe an autopilot option? Either way, good luck.

 

[Sardinia306Bimini]

Yes, Mustang is right.
I was considering to get twins for my Rib as I often fish alone and 12 miles off shore, but as I am in the market for a GW Canyon I will need twins, so that consideration is cleared.
Seems not really an issue, but we don't have SeaTow or similar help, if my engine dies I have to call Costa Guard.

Twins can be useful to save lives, but not always as engine failure will depend of the reason for failure.
Limping home with one engine will often work but serious troubles with fuel system, electrical system will not allow that and if the reason is a spun propeller the second one may fail on the way home too if they have same age.
Some insist to be able to swap a defective propeller off-shore, I did it in the marina and it was no fun and I have to admit that I dropped the propeller nut.... Having a spare propeller aboard should include mask, snorkel and good, long fins, bigger outboard propeller are heavy beasts, particularly without fins.
A kicker with a completely separate fuel tank and hoses is a good backup system, however the choice of the right kicker and it's installation is very important. Often a kicker is useful for slow trolling too, but on a heavy boat the power will be insufficient to push the boat under nasty conditions, but e enough powerful kicker will be too fast for slow trolling.
And often nasty conditions are the underlaying reason for engine failure

Safety concerns should include not only two outboards, but also and very important to have the boat in best conditions.
Replace propellers every xx years, check and replace batteries every xx years, check fuel filters for debris and water, fuel lines for any kind of damage and if in doubt replace them.
Well then also thru-hulls, their hoses, bilge pumps, etc, but that's not propulsion related but still is one of the biggest hazards and sinking is ways worst than drifting without propulsion.

A good and in working order toolbox and the knowledge to use it is a big security plus as some/a lot of dead engine problems could be fixed rather easily if tools, parts and knowledge is aboard.

Chris

 

[Cadeco]

I have a '97 Islander repowered with Yamaha F150 in 2007. I made the switch to 4-blade props a few years back. The props were a game changer for me. No loss of top end performance - 28 knot cruise but significantly better mid-range. I have over 2,000 hours on them and they are running perfectly. At some point the motors will need replacing. I'll move to a higher HP 4-stroke 4-cylinder. 200 hp x 2 is my hull limit. I run a heavy boat with lots of gear, extended baitwell on transom. 4 people or less. Fishing in Islamorada in the Winter. I am quite pleased with my performance after the prop change.

Back to your boat. I understand where you are going with the switch to twins. You didn't talk about past performance. Is this boat new to you? Has it alway underperformed? 7 people is tight but it depends on where you are going. Crusing around Lake Worth to get to a Resturant - no problem. Running across to Bimini - not something I would do. But it's Captain's call.

When you do decide to repower have the transom and stringers gone over carefully. Inside and outside. Cracking under the rub rail, engine well and inside along stringers. When the engines are off is the time to decide in it needs to be done. Mine looks good but there are some suspicious cracks. I'm redoing mine in the Spring. I talked to other GG members who have done their Islander. They said you really couldn't tell how bad it was until you got into it. If there is suspicion, it may make sense to buy another GW equipped the way you want.

Thanks,
You was able to understand the reasons for it. Yes , it's new to me I bought it not too long ago from out of State and had it Professionally Surveyed before signing the check and everything was OK ( I still have the multi-pages report). I never had those many people before and (to be clear) I did not paid attention that they were on the back. I intend to go to Bimini some day and want to make sure that I have a better chance of not be stuck if one motor has problem.

 

[Cadeco]

Until essentially just now, you hadn't ever mentioned the safety aspect of it, and also not every wants nor needs twin motors, of which I would fall into that category. Twin motors are great for redundancy but even still, you could potentially have a fuel issue that could affect both motors. Also, depending on the size/weight of the boat, a single motor is in all likelihood not going to get the boat up on a plane by itself. Sure, it's great to run the throttle and steer the boat at the helm, but you might also look into a single main setup along with a kicker motor and maybe an autopilot option? Either way, good luck.

I understand that nothing (except taxes and death) is guaranteed and yes, for some issues they both may have a problem. but, Issues that can cause both engines to stop working can also happen w/ a single engine, the idea is for the "other reasons." that can make an engine stop by itself. The boat is in very good condition and of course most of the time (95% of the time) will be run on the coastal waterways. But if I decide once to go out I rather be safe than sorry!.