Possible Re-power 07 Marlin

[Angler Management]

Hi fellas,
It was a sad weekend with one of my 2007 Yamaha 250's breaking a rod, we can discuss particulars of the situation in another thread or PM, so if we could stick to topic here I'd like to hear individual opinions on repowering the 2007 era Marlin. I'm not 100% sure I'm going re-power, and the boat is on the hard in a different town and functionally inaccessible to me, so forgive me if there are questions I ask that could easily be answered by looking at the boat.

My questions are:
- Is this model year rated for 600hp?
- Most of the new 250's and even some 300's are significantly LIGHTER than my 07's... I normally run the boat pretty heavy with fuel and ice chests and stuff, but is it safe for me to assume that removing 200+ pounds from the transom is a GOOD THING?
-Have any of you done it (repower), with what, when, and did you use the same space between engines, and any other tricks you'd suggest? (I was thinking now would be an excellent time to evaluate and make bombproof any transom issues you all have run into, if any)
-Engine opinions are like everything else, and I'll take all comments with a grain of salt. But let's do some discussion on exactly what you'd repower your 2007 GW with in my situation. I've ruled out the E-Tecs. My local knowledge base is really thinking the Suzuki 300's should be a solid competitor to Yamaha in my decisionmaking. Something about a better gear ratio for a heavy boat like ours?

I'm sure there will be more questions if indeed I need to repower. I'm not making any decisions on what to do until at least Monday when my mechanic gets back from a well deserved family vacation.

Thoughts?

Randy

 

[Coolchange1]

Hello,
I can't comment on your boat as I have a 2003 265 Express but it was re powered with Suzuki's (225's though) in 2016 and I love them. I've had the yamaha 225's and like the Suzuki's a lot better, quieter, easier to change the oil on, you can just grab the oil filter it's not hidden away. Just my opinion

Tim

 

[L.R.]

Can't really go wrong with the Suzuki's. Price,Power,Reliable..Just re-powered My 226 with a DF-250 AP and really like it.

 

[Angler Management]

Thanks for the input so far!

Grady got back to me and said indeed my model year is rated for 600hp so I could go twin 300's if I wanted.

Almost all of these engines are around 600#, with the Yamaha's being a tad lighter. The Mercury Verado 300hp is a V-8. Anyone want to comment on the benefits and downsides of a V-8 over a V-6 if the horsepower rating is the same? In my mind it would seem the V-8 would have to burn more gas per turn, so what benefit to I see? Just more wires and valves to go bad, right? Or is it really worth having the extra 2 cylinders for this HP range?

 

[Mr.crab]

Sorry about your motors, have 2000 Marlin put my 2016 Yamaha 225 4.2L on it from my Sailfish.
The 225 have 300 powerheads pretty much the same power up to 5000 rpm, so you just lose
some top end. Up to 250 hp on those motors you can use 87 grade fuel.Love the fly by wire.
Thanks

 

[artodea]

Those V8 mercs do look pretty nice and a V8 doesn't necessarily burn more gas than an equivalent power V6. It has more to do with displacement. And 200 less pounds on your transom will likely have a more profound impact on your range. If you are concerned with complexity of an outboard with a whole bunch of camshafts and valve springs you might want to reconsider that e-tec... Can't get any more simpler than that (admittedly biased opinion - sorry)

 

[Tuna Man]

If given a choice I would re-power with Yamaha 300hp or Suzuki 300hp. My decision would be based on proximity of the dealer, local parts availability, whether I could use the same gauges and twin controls or not and finally cost. I don't think you could go wrong with either one.

I don't recall reading how you typically use your boat. If you often run short distances and rarely run with a very heavy load, you might just want to purchase new 250hp engines to keep costs down.

Also you mentioned possibly reducing the weight hung on your transom by two hundred pounds or so, in my opinion that would be a good thing. On a marlin between the water tank, the four batteries, the fishbox, possibly a generator and whatever else you keep near the transom these things can certainly add up. While we load the boat to the gills on an offshore canyon run, I much prefer the way the boat handles with a light load. I think you will notice the difference if you can "loose" 200 lbs on the transom.

 

[Angler Management]

Thanks guys! Great input.

I normally run the boat pretty heavy. We use it for winter salmon fishing in bad weather and long weekend and week-long trips into Canada for summer salmon. Normal crew is me and two other fatsos, lots of ice and beverages. I don't think the weight difference in the transom will be anything bad, but always looking for other opinions. Regardless, the weight difference isn't as much as I thought. 300 Yamaha lists at 562#, Suzuki and Merc are 600#, and Etec is listed at 579#.

Let's talk more about the Etec...? Right now Evinrude is having a sale at my local Grady dealer, and they are offering a 10 year warranty if purchased before July 31.

My only issue with two strokes would be I am currently trolling for 6-10 hours a day on the mains, and the 4 strokes are superior in this category IMO. What do you guys feel about trolling on Etecs (remember salmon trolling is SLOW, 1.5kts).

Randy

 

[SkunkBoat]

My opinion on etecs --- great engineering but a day late and a dollar short. Don't fight a lost battle. 4 strokes are the present and future.
If you're on a lake in a center console and want to go fast, not far, maybe they are ok.
Gallon of oil $20 to $50 depending on brand name. at 50 to1 mix that adds 40 cents to $1 per gallon of gas
A canyon trip for me with 2 strokes burns at least 200 gallons of gas and 4 gallons of oil. I buy cheap oil so thats $80 just in oil, on top of $690 in gas

A big boat like yours need 4 strokes. Period.

My opinion on Mercury. Based on several friends' experience with big Verados...comparatively poor fuel economy, expensive gas, lower unit problems when brand new..

Honda, who started the 4 stroke revolution, is overpriced and is not keeping up with advancements.

That leaves Yamaha and Suzuki.
Both of them had some exhaust corrosion issues early on that appear to be resolved in the newer models.
Yamaha has been the King but has been pissing people off as of late. They are on top and not hungry.
I was pricing F200 i4s and several dealers were like " ya, I suppose we could sell you a couple..." and then hit me with uncompetitive prices.

I have owed a Suzuki DF140 and it was a GREAT motor( exhaust housing aside)
They are hungry for new business and they have a great product. they give 6 year warranty
I like the timing chain vs belt. They are easy to work on and parts are available online at reasonable prices.
They are always several thousand dollars less than comparable Yamahas

As for weight, I have heard (from Suzuki dealers) that Yamaha quotes the weight without oil and prop so they are closer than literature appears.
Anyway, the difference in weight is negligible.

As for going up to 300s vs 250s. Were you happy with the performance( speed, acceleration, fuel burn) of the F250s?
If so, why pay up?
Do you ever run WOT for long stretches and really wish you could go faster?
Or do you settle in at 30 mph and save gas?

 

[Finest Kind]

Thanks guys! Great input.

I normally run the boat pretty heavy. We use it for winter salmon fishing in bad weather and long weekend and week-long trips into Canada for summer salmon. Normal crew is me and two other fatsos, lots of ice and beverages. I don't think the weight difference in the transom will be anything bad, but always looking for other opinions. Regardless, the weight difference isn't as much as I thought. 300 Yamaha lists at 562#, Suzuki and Merc are 600#, and Etec is listed at 579#.

Let's talk more about the Etec...? Right now Evinrude is having a sale at my local Grady dealer, and they are offering a 10 year warranty if purchased before July 31.

My only issue with two strokes would be I am currently trolling for 6-10 hours a day on the mains, and the 4 strokes are superior in this category IMO. What do you guys feel about trolling on Etecs (remember salmon trolling is SLOW, 1.5kts).

Randy

Another (biased) vote for the Etec....
You wont even see the gas gauge move after trolling 6 hours at idle speed with Etecs.
When the fishing day is over, open her up and run full throttle for a mile or so and you will blow out any carbon that might tend to accumulate.

Fly by wire STANDARD!
MORE torque than a four stroke!
NO maintenance for 5 years or 500 hours!
TEN year warranty!
RAVE reviews from real users, here and on Hull Truth! (do a search)

What's not to like?

 

[g0tagrip]

Remember opinions are like ............ arm pits, everyone has two. My 2 cents worth......I would go with 300's. My Yamaha guys says the fuel economy is better than our 2007 F250s. Which 300, again opinions, but I would go with Yamaha or Suzuki, the deal breaker would not just be cost but what changes to your gages and is that added cost? What is the availability of good maintenance in your area for those engines?
That would be the considerations for me anyway. In any case good luck with your decision.
Oh, did you rule out having the motor repaired?

 

[Another Distraction]

I bought an etec an love it.

 

[1998sailfish]

Thanks guys! Great input.

I normally run the boat pretty heavy. We use it for winter salmon fishing in bad weather and long weekend and week-long trips into Canada for summer salmon. Normal crew is me and two other fatsos, lots of ice and beverages. I don't think the weight difference in the transom will be anything bad, but always looking for other opinions. Regardless, the weight difference isn't as much as I thought. 300 Yamaha lists at 562#, Suzuki and Merc are 600#, and Etec is listed at 579#.

Let's talk more about the Etec...? Right now Evinrude is having a sale at my local Grady dealer, and they are offering a 10 year warranty if purchased before July 31.

My only issue with two strokes would be I am currently trolling for 6-10 hours a day on the mains, and the 4 strokes are superior in this category IMO. What do you guys feel about trolling on Etecs (remember salmon trolling is SLOW, 1.5kts).

Randy

Ok, lets talk E-Tec G2's
I do know that I was the first on this forum to re=power my Marlin with G2- 250's. I currently have over 300 hrs on the motors and I have zero complaints. I will say that operation of the G2's is equal to 4 strokes in cost per mile of operation when comparing the cost of XD 100 oil to 4 stroke oil changes twice yearly.

Power to the prop, real world torque :
I have many friends with four stroke Yamaha, Honda, Zukes as well as Merc. I never rode on a Merc powered vessel with the newest technology prior to my G2 purchase. The G2's , hands down , continue to impress all who experience the two stroke performance and constant power thru the RPM range .........unlike a 4-stroke.

Fuel economy :
I chose a earlier year Marlin (2000) to re-power as I was interested in the larger fuel tank prior to GW's reduction in capacity. The 2000 Marlin was powered with Yamaha injected OX 66 250's that would suck fuel at .9 mile per gal. at cruise (27-30 mph) . The twin 250 G2's yield 1.6 mpg at 3850 rpm at 30 mph cruise (150 gal of fuel and 4 persons on board) . Fully loaded (310 gal of fuel and 4 persons with Ice and supplies for overnight fishing adventure she burns at 1.4 mpg , 3850 rpm, 27-28 mph. I can say for a fact that this has provided me with a safe operating range of 200 miles round trip to the the edge of the Continental Shelf slope waters of Long Island NY. Trolling .............these motors sip fuel.

XD 100 oil The motors are set up to run this oil. I purchased a 55 gal drum of XD at DOMO ( online) when I purchased the motors 4/2016. I estimate I will have enough oils to last this season. Bulk purchase seems to be the best route.

Noise level
Hands down, 4-strokes are extremely quite at idle. The two stroke exhaust pulse is by no means quite at cruise but I feel this to be the same for 4 strokes.

Integrated steering and protection of the lift motor:
This is actually one of the many engineering changes that sold me on these motors ! The fact that NO other engine manufacturer would spend their resources on R and D to develop enclosed steering and reverse the position of the Lift motor to prevent it from being continually immersed in salt water blows me away. My splash well is free of moving (degrading) rigging tubes and steering cylinders. !

In all:
Its all about Profit. BRP wanted to make a change in the market with their proven E-Tech design and continued use of advanced 2 stroke technology in the marine industry. They were give a clean sheet to redesign the two stroke outboard. A gamble for sure , but I as well as many others feel that their product is superior in a marine environment. Like any other outboard, a large part of your choice in motors should be based on serviceability . If you have qualified E-Tec service locations in your area, this may be the motor for you.

Best of luck in whatever you choose!

 

[1998sailfish]

One last note:

300 or 250 E-Tec G2's................same exact motor .............different programing. Yes, that is correct info directly from my dealer. My 2000 Marlin has a 500hp transom rating so I chose to stick with it. Our marlin has a top speed of 44 mph @ 50% fuel with 4 persons onboard. I have never once felt that our vessel is underpowered.

That being said, If my transom was rated at 600hp I would have gone with the 300's as this may have bumped the fuel economy up a bit.

 

[KingJ]

Evinrude G2s. "Designed from the point of combustion". 21st Century technology is the answer. TEN years. That's confidence. Made in the USA.

 

[Finest Kind]

Evinrude G2s. "Designed from the point of combustion". 21st Century technology is the answer. TEN years. That's confidence. Made in the USA.

Another point I forgot to make in my reply above:
NO BREAK IN PERIOD! Run em like you stole em as soon as you take delivery.

This plus all the other input listed in all the posts above....Again I ask...Whats not to like?

 

[family affair]

Len, can you post some details of your application?
Boat length, beam, weight.
Engines - 2.7 or 3.4 liter?
Cruise performance, top speed, slow troll?

Thanks

 

[KingJ]

Just to add another bonus point with the G2s: No oil changes ever. Also the transferable 10 year warranty should/ could add resale value to your boat in case you move on within that time.

Addition: There's zero belts or chains. Magneto power. The G2 is smarter than I am by far which is a good thing. It cools itself off at higher RPM's which is cool to see.

 

[Finest Kind]

Len, can you post some details of your application?
Boat length, beam, weight.
Engines - 2.7 or 3.4 liter?
Cruise performance, top speed, slow troll?

Thanks

Sure thing Family Affair....As you can see in my sig, Finest Kind is a 1988 Trophy Pro....25 foot hull w/o bracket or pulpit, actually around 28 foot running surface and around 30 foot overall...or at least that is the length-basis my storage facility is charging me!

check out the specs here:
http://www.gradywhite.com/archived-brochures/

The Trophy Pro was designed as a day-trip Fishing machine, not a family cruiser. Below there is plenty of rod and tackle storage (lets see...I have two wahoo trolling rods, four tuna trolling rods, four bottom fishing rods, four yellowtail rods, two jigging rods plus a kite rod, kite, ballyhoop, about 4 dozen lures/jigs, 2 drift socks, 1 large and 2 small chum bags, docking lines, bumpers, etc, etc all stored aboard) but no galley or TV (although she does have a bunk and a marine head).
She has a 9 foot 6 inch beam and a HUGE cockpit larger than any modern Grady...it is a solid, heavy seaworthy boat!
Perfect for me since I can take 4 guys out Fishing with plenty of room for all, yet small enough that I can take her out solo anytime I want even if no crew is available.

I have the twin ETEC Gen 2 200 HP small block motors with the TRAC midsections, utilizing my tried and true Sea Star steering instead of the integrated power steering in the standard ETEC (at very significant cost AND weight savings).

With the torque of these motors, the Hermco V bottom fiberglass bracket and the 4 bladed props she JUMPS up on plane and can hit 50 miles per hour on flat water, but full throttle is almost never used unless I want to blow out some carbon after extended trolling or if I want to blow somebody's hat off!

We cruise to and from the Fishing grounds at 3600 to 4000 RPM and 25 to 30 mph depending on Sea conditions and how fast we want to get there/home. When its rough we can still hold plane at 2800-3000 rpm and still do close to 20 mph with the motors trimmed under and the tabs all the way down.

The new motors are giving me 2 to 2.3 mpg at cruise which is better than my previous 2007 Gen 1 ETECS which used to get me 1.5 to 1.7 and WAY better than my original 1988 200 HP carbed Johnson's which were lucky to get me 1 mpg.
In other words the new Etecs have effectively doubled the operating range of my boat.
For example a day trip to Bimini (50 miles from my inlet) is now no big deal as long as the WX allows since I can get there on the AUX (75 gal tank), troll for Wahoo at high speed for hours and still have some left in the AUX before I switch over to the full main tank (150 gals) when it's time to head home.

Tuna/Wahoo trolling speeds at 1400 to 2000 RPM get me from 3 to 4 miles per gallon while low speed trolling (for Grouper with Stretch 25's or with live bait for Sailfish) at idle speed (500 rpm) to 750 RPM will get you over 10.
Oil consumption has also come down from 1 gal oil for every 50 gals gas originally to 1 gal oil (XD100)) for very 100 gals gas with the Etecs.

All in all I'm VERY pleased with the Etecs and DO highly recommend them to anyone looking to re-power their GREAT GRADY.

 

[Fishtales]

I'd do f300 or f250s. The next owner likely wants those engines on this gw transom.