Re-powered my GW226 with a Honda BF250

Doc Stressor

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#1
I finally got tired of my original F250 making oil so I went ahead and turned it into a brand new 2019 BF250. Now I hope I can finally troll without changing the oil every 20 hr.

It's going to take a while to get used to that big silver thing back there.

Honda1.jpg

Honda2.jpg

I also added a Bob's Machine Shop manual jack plate to set the engine back 5.5 inches so that the lower unit will no longer interfere with my side scan transducer. They do a really good job and even machined out a piece so that the mounted jack plate won't crush against the transom bang plate (which I also replaced with the new vinyl material).

Honda3.jpg

I haven't had it offshore yet but I put on 3.5 hr of break-in runs in the river and bay. The engine and jack plate added an additional 100+ lb to the transom load which dramatically changed the handling characteristics of the boat. It no longer bow steers at low speed and for some reason or other, it no longer lists to port when on plane. I used to need 30% port tab to keep it level. The extra weight buries the scuppers but water doesn't flow into the cockpit with 2 not too fat guys in the stern. However, I image that boots will be needed with a few of my fluffier friends are aboard.

It will be interesting to see how the boat handles head seas when I set up the anchor offshore. With the F250 it would veer from side to side making it very difficult to position the boat where I want.

Do any of you folks with 228s have problems with bow steer when off plane? I've been in a few of them but I can't recall if they had the same issue as the 226. SV2 hulls are very quirky. I have a love/hate relationship with mine.
 

trapper

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#2
Looks like a great fit! Yes I detect a severe case of perma- grin in the first pic. Enjoy!!!! Summer is coming! Cheers, trapper
 

Doc Stressor

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The engine is very quiet throughout the power range. It gets me the same top speed as the F250, but doesn't have the mid-range torque. It has an interesting fueling profile that has a lean burn range and a BLAST range that you really only feel if you push the throttle all the way on acceleration. If you increase speed gradually the torque curve very gradual. The F250 had gobs of torque between 4000 and 4500 rpm that would pop the boat up on plane quickly. The Honda requires more throttle.

The lean burn feature is sort of quirky. If I run at about 42-4300 rpm, the engine tends to speed up and slow down without touching the throttle. Slowing down or speeding up a little will stop this. I've seen this on other boats with Hondas that have the lean burn feature.
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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#4
Sweet! Have you taken it off any sweet jumps!? Ok, that's a Napoleon Dynamite reference, lol. It's looks cool. Is the weight difference noticable? The Honda is on the husky side of weight. I know you will enjoy it and you do like quiet happy with the new motor!
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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#5
I finally got tired of my original F250 making oil so I went ahead and turned it into a brand new 2019 BF250. Now I hope I can finally troll without changing the oil every 20 hr.

It's going to take a while to get used to that big silver thing back there.

View attachment 7413

View attachment 7414

I also added a Bob's Machine Shop manual jack plate to set the engine back 5.5 inches so that the lower unit will no longer interfere with my side scan transducer. They do a really good job and even machined out a piece so that the mounted jack plate won't crush against the transom bang plate (which I also replaced with the new vinyl material).

View attachment 7415

I haven't had it offshore yet but I put on 3.5 hr of break-in runs in the river and bay. The engine and jack plate added an additional 100+ lb to the transom load which dramatically changed the handling characteristics of the boat. It no longer bow steers at low speed and for some reason or other, it no longer lists to port when on plane. I used to need 30% port tab to keep it level. The extra weight buries the scuppers but water doesn't flow into the cockpit with 2 not too fat guys in the stern. However, I image that boots will be needed with a few of my fluffier friends are aboard.

It will be interesting to see how the boat handles head seas when I set up the anchor offshore. With the F250 it would veer from side to side making it very difficult to position the boat where I want.

Do any of you folks with 228s have problems with bow steer when off plane? I've been in a few of them but I can't recall if they had the same issue as the 226. SV2 hulls are very quirky. I have a love/hate relationship with mine.
Doc, my 228 seems to track well at low speeds. I have a hard top, don't know if that means anything. You are a smart fellow, do you have some extra weight or something in the bow? Typically, if you got a lot weight up front you can get the bow steer or pinning issue. From your post it seems more balanced with the extra weight.

As you know I hung the 4.3 liter F250 which is lighter than the 3.4 liter . I didn't have bow steering then and still don't now with the lighter motor. Maybe the bracket factors into it?
 
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#6
That Honda looks great. Something sleek about a silver engine. I like it.

I've got a 2003 228 that I upgraded from a yamaha 225 to a suzuki 250ap last year. I wouldn't say the boat ever bow steered. I've been on other boats that have, particularly on a plane, and I can say it's an uncomfortable feeling. I should be out on the water this week and I'm curious what you're asking about so let me know specifics and I'll tell you how mine performs.

I do tend to trim the boat up when on a plane so I'm not one to push the bow in low. When out in winds that are 25 to 30 on the Chesapeake, I will say the boat can slam some times when a wave catches the hull under the aft portion of the hull. I think that the hull is pretty flat there and everything shimmies. I've heard of using the tabs and engine trim to push the bow into waves to improve the ride. Is this when you encounter bow steer?

What are the boots that you refer to? My scuppers are buried and water comes on deck when everyone is one one side admiring a fish. Do boots help here?

Well, it looks like I've got more questions than input. With that said, you've got a great looking ride. Love to see some performance numbers and pics with fish coming over the side.

Cheers,
Ben
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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That Honda looks great. Something sleek about a silver engine. I like it.

I've got a 2003 228 that I upgraded from a yamaha 225 to a suzuki 250ap last year. I wouldn't say the boat ever bow steered. I've been on other boats that have, particularly on a plane, and I can say it's an uncomfortable feeling. I should be out on the water this week and I'm curious what you're asking about so let me know specifics and I'll tell you how mine performs.

I do tend to trim the boat up when on a plane so I'm not one to push the bow in low. When out in winds that are 25 to 30 on the Chesapeake, I will say the boat can slam some times when a wave catches the hull under the aft portion of the hull. I think that the hull is pretty flat there and everything shimmies. I've heard of using the tabs and engine trim to push the bow into waves to improve the ride. Is this when you encounter bow steer?

What are the boots that you refer to? My scuppers are buried and water comes on deck when everyone is one one side admiring a fish. Do boots help here?

Well, it looks like I've got more questions than input. With that said, you've got a great looking ride. Love to see some performance numbers and pics with fish coming over the side.

Cheers,
Ben
The SeaV2 hull is a tab friendly design. The variable dead rise design works well if you are into a head sea and drop the tabs down. This way the sharp bow entry is being put to use as it slices through the head sea waves. Learn to use those tabs, they are installed for the purpose of utilizing the boats geometry for a better ride.
 

wrxhoon

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#8
I don't have the problem with my new one, hardtop and 4.2 l 250. No problems with my old 228, vista top and 250 Merc optimax. When marlin or Blue fin are around I troll for hours to find the fish, speed 7-8 knots.
I trim down heading out in the morning for comfort, depending on the sea I will sit on 20- 25 knots . Coming back in the afternoon with the weather mostly behind me , I trim up to keep the bow from diving when I surf the waves , usual speed 20-30 knots .
If the scuppers work you shouldn't get any water on the floor, you may need to change the little tabs .
 

Doc Stressor

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My boat only bow steered when off plane at low speed with the old engine. I could minimize the effect by trimming the engine way up. It had something to do with the fore-aft center of balance. I don't keep much in the cuddy except for fishing gear and a pair of light anchors. But the bow plows until I go fast enough to get some lift.

The extra 100+ lb on the stern and or the 5.5" setback seems to have eliminated the problem of bow steer. But I find that docking behavior is different and I need to re-learn things. The stern pulls to port when I put the boat into reverse. At least it seems to be consistent. With the old engine, I never knew what the boat would do when I put it into reverse. My marina has a tidal eddy around the dock and depending upon the wind direction, strange things would happen. My old Gradys tracked straight as arrows. Put the bow into the dock at a 20-degree angle, put it in reverse, and the stern would tuck right in. Without lift strakes the full length of the hull, the SV2 slides all over the place at low speed.

I'm putting in a bunch of new electronics, which will take me about a week working at my normal geriatric pace. A Simrad Evo3, a Furuno AP300 autopilot (like trapper's), and a new VHF with its own GPS so that it won't depend on a network connection for DSC emergency calls.
 
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The V-tech system kicks in on the Honda at around 4200 RPM's- You will see a noticeable difference in power beyond that RPM range. Hondas are smooth and efficient motors but they are highly fuel sensitive. Be diligent with filter changes and fresh clean fuel and you will get thousands of hours out of that motor. Not sure if you have a source of ethanol free fuel there? Here in New England, the ethanol fuel presents a host of problems for my BF225.
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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The V-tech system kicks in on the Honda at around 4200 RPM's- You will see a noticeable difference in power beyond that RPM range. Hondas are smooth and efficient motors but they are highly fuel sensitive. Be diligent with filter changes and fresh clean fuel and you will get thousands of hours out of that motor. Not sure if you have a source of ethanol free fuel there? Here in New England, the ethanol fuel presents a host of problems for my BF225.
Here is something I do not understand. If Honda's are just maranized Odyssey/pilot engines , then why are they so sensitive to ethanol? Their car motors don't seem this way at all? I know, I know maybe the marine fuel injection system with VST tanks maybe the key difference.
 

Doc Stressor

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I can only speak from previous experiences with their carburated engines. I had a BH90 and a BH8 on a boat I had on the west coast before I moved back to Florida. Their carb jets had very small clearances and they were sensitive to stale or dirty fuel. I used Stabil all the time but still had some problems until I went to a 10 micron Racor pre-filter. That standard for carbed engines was 30 micron. They were great engines. I put 3500 hr on the 8 hp kicker and it was still running fine when I sold the boat to my friend who proceeded to knock it off the boat at a gas pump. The BH90 is still running great at the ripe old age of 21 years.

The problems Hondas have with ethanol containing fuel is the same as any other engine used in a marine environment. CG regulations require boats to have an open (vented) gas tank unlike the pressurized system used in cars. Ethanol attracts water which can lead to phase separation. Earlier fuel hoses and some tanks were attacked by ethanol which produced debris that clogged filters. Varnish accumulated in old fuel tanks was also partially solubilized by ethanol causing the same type of problem. Finally, before regulations changed, ethanol fuel contained high amounts of sulfur that formed acids that corroded soft metal parts in outboard fuel systems. The white powder that used to accumulate in VST tanks was caused by sulfate corrosion. Modern E10 fuel contains much less sulfur.

Most of the early problems with ethanol fuels and outboards have been worked out. There are good additives that stabilize ethanol fuels for long periods of time. But I still use Rec 90 and Stabil in my boat engines and lawn equipment since it is easy to get in Florida.
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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Hey Doc, I am heading to the Sunshine State today with my son. My fishing buddy is renting a house down in Port St.lucie . We got 4 days of trolling on the calendar at the end of this week. Fishing reports suggest yellowfin, black fin and mahi are all being caught off of Martin and St.Lucie counties.
 

Doc Stressor

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Have a nice trip and good luck!

I've been thinking of an east coast trip myself. I'm getting tired of snapper and grouper and they won't let us keep much over here until June. Some pelagics would be a nice change.
 

RussGW270

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First off.. That is beautiful.. really. I know "I" would just be on cloud 9 with an upgrade like that and the boat will keep trucking along for a lot of years to come heh.

Secondly, I see a lot of folks re-power with non-yamaha outboards. Is that pretty normal? I would think the yamahas would be easier, but never re-powered so no idea.

Just curious.

Super nice boat, btw.

Russ
 

Doc Stressor

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Yamaha was my most expensive repower option. The best I could do was ~$23,000 for an F250. The Honda cost just under $20,000 and a Tahatsu, which is the same engine, was about $18,000. Those prices are rigged, with new cables and gauges, and include taxes. I'd have gone with the Tahatsu, but they wouldn't take my old engine in trade. I thought that I had it sold on my own, but the deal didn't work out.

The one thing to consider when repowering is that Grady used a Yamaha specific Seastar cylinder rather than the generic one that most other boats have. So I had to spring for an addition $700 for the new cylinder.
 

Ky Grady

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First off.. That is beautiful.. really. I know "I" would just be on cloud 9 with an upgrade like that and the boat will keep trucking along for a lot of years to come heh.

Secondly, I see a lot of folks re-power with non-yamaha outboards. Is that pretty normal? I would think the yamahas would be easier, but never re-powered so no idea.

Just curious.

Super nice boat, btw.

Russ
Right now, the problem with repowering with a Yamaha is availability. Unless you are a large dealer or do volume, you can't find F225-F250 motors. Only a few dealers around that have inventory. Also the exhaust fiasco and making oil issues have guys looking at other alternatives. Service when needed, is a factor that I look at.

Guess I'm in a minority, as I'll wait on availability at my dealer to repower with a Yamaha.
 
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wrxhoon

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The one thing to consider when repowering is that Grady used a Yamaha specific Seastar cylinder rather than the generic one that most other boats have. So I had to spring for an addition $700 for the new cylinder.[/QUOTE said:
Do you know what is the difference? Is it the cylinder itself?
 

Doc Stressor

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Honda uses the HC5345-3 cylinder that fits most single engines regardless of the manufacturer. Whatever Grady used 11 years ago didn't fit the yolk on the Honda.