Suzuki versus Yamaha

jekyl

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My 200 hpdi's have been giving me some reliability problems that aren't being solved easily . As they have 750 hours i was just thinking about Suzuki 4 strokes as an option. The Yamaha dealers here all seem to think that because i already have Yammies then that's what I would replace them with. Consequently the trade in prices are very low.
I haven't checked Suzuki dealers yet but thought I would ask for feedback or comparisons.
I have a 265 express 2000 model One consideration could be that the Suzuki's could devalue the boat given Grady's ties to Yamaha?
 

busterblue

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Loe my zukes

have twin 2006 175 4s. They are quiet, efficient, powerful and (dare I say) troublefree.
 

BobP

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Too bad you can't fnd a mechanic to properly service the HPDIs.
A costly situation to be in.
 

Grog

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I'd find a reputable dealer/mechanic then look at brands. Nobody down there can fix HPDI's?
 

BobP

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Better make sure as well he gets a good Suzie mechanic too.

4 strokes are more complicated with many more parts than 2 strokes.
 

RUMBLEFISH

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Would you guy a car with a warranty only to have the dealer 500 miles away? Buy the motors you can get the best service on. Look around the marina, ask other guys with motors you want who they use for service and are they happy. IF you see alot of zukes on the backs then in your area thats what people seem to like. Out by me I see very few and service would be a real pain in the ass.

All todays motors are good just buy the ones that make sense for you.
 

JUST-IN-TIME

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jekyl said:
My 200 hpdi's have been giving me some reliability problems that aren't being solved easily . As they have 750 hours i was just thinking about Suzuki 4 strokes as an option. The Yamaha dealers here all seem to think that because i already have Yammies then that's what I would replace them with. Consequently the trade in prices are very low.
I haven't checked Suzuki dealers yet but thought I would ask for feedback or comparisons.
I have a 265 express 2000 model One consideration could be that the Suzuki's could devalue the boat given Grady's ties to Yamaha?

these the same one with the water in the tanks
you have other issues are the tech has not been to HPDI school!!!
 

wahoo33417

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Rumblefish is right on. Although my Yammie (engine and dealer) is great, I'd let my opinion of the dealerships be the deciding factor between these two good engines. Which dealer do you think will come through for you if you have a problem?

I'm somewhat Yammie biased, so yeah, I'd prefer to buy a used Grady with Yammie's more so than Zukes. But if you plan to keep the engines for some time, like through the 5 or 6 year warranty period, then I don't see that as a factor now.

Rob
 

gradyfish22

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Both brands are good and both have quality engines. If you stick with yamaha you will not have to change your guages, with suzuki you will, adding to the overall price by a decent amount, new tachs, fuel management, etc. First and foremost you need to buy from a service center you trust and mechanic you plan to sue and who might be fairly local. Both engines are good wuality so the selling point needs to be the ease of maintenace and parts for the future. I have 225 Yamaha 4 strokes on the same hull as you and love them, I have 550 hours on mine, bought them with 140hours last spring. Only maintenance we've done is one dealer tune mid season since we had a 2 week down time while we were away, and our 100 hour oil changes and lowe runit oil changes. They have been flawless and are quiet. The only draw back to four strokes for you is the location of your scuppers....you may have to have them moved up, many pre 2002 265's have lower scuppers and the extra weight of a 4 stroke may require them to be moved higher, and they can be. My boat was one of the last with the original hull, but was built with 4 stroke power and had the scuppers moved higher by the factory. The newer hull used the location I have, I know others have moved them up. It really depends how comfortable you feel with where they are....since you trailer and the boat does not stay in to often it may not effect you as much as long as the deck drains. The boat should never get water in it except when you use the washdown...I've backed down on fish at 6kts with no water in the cockpit so chances are you might be ok but I'm just giving you a heads up of something you may or may not encounter as some have.

As you know, I owned an HPDI on my other boat and loved it, but honestly the HPDI and Yamaha 4 stroke are 2 different beasts and the 4 stroke has a great reputation, especially the F225. I would not let your current engine discourage you. I feel bad for the luck you'vbe had, it seems thta from day one nothing went right. The 200 HPDI was one of the greatest engines Yamaha built but it seems like to me the previous owner never took good care of them and left you with the mess. I think his lack of service and care has lead to your misfourtune. I wonder if your engines ever got the proper Yamaha computer updates. My HPDI was the second repower engine in my state and from the first shipment of them...the ones that needed updates but I had them done and never had an issue, newer models never needed them.

The suzuki DF200 and 225 weigh 580lbs, the Yamaha is 583 so weight is negligible between the two models. I've been impressed with some of the suzuki tests but there has never been a good comparison between the two models....most boat tests aren't reliable anyways, there are too many variables that testers do not keep the same when comparing engines so it is hard to compare apples to apples. The suzuki does have a slightly larger displacement though, might give it better hole shot, although my F225's are pretty nimble on that model. Honestly I really do not think you can go wrong with either brand.
 

jekyl

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Thanks for your kind thoughts and suggestions. I am just trying to think ahead and what my options are if we can't get the 200 hpdi's reliable again.
Water in the tanks is not an issue any more after replacing the filter elements 3 times we have seen no contamination in the filters.When the 200's are going well they are an awesome match for this hull.
We have the Port motor working well at the moment and next is to systematically go through the fuel supply on the starboard motor as we have already done on the port.
Having alternated stators with no change we are now going back to the fuel system. I have adjusted the oil rods as suggested on another forum. To lessen the quantity being used, which is currently causing some fouled plugs when trolling.
I am learning a lot about the motors the expensive and the hard way.....
At least they appear to be strong with no compression issues etc.
 

JUST-IN-TIME

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you need to plug that thing into the new yds, you an record for like 15mins now

you run it at all different rpms
 

BobP

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Looks like you are trying to get the motors working right yourself, I can understand your predicament when you are not getting proper factory support, been there, done that.

No matter what happened to the fuel system or otherwise, you should only have to drop off the boat at the dealer, go to pick it up when ready, pay the bill, and steam off into the sunset with everything perfect.

Condider contacting Yamaha and saying you can never buy another Yamaha motor since you have been essentially abandoned and left to fend for yourself. As simple as 2 strokes are, they are not model airplane engines. Without experience, test equipment, factory to dealer direct tech support, and training, DIYers are limited.

Lesson learned - be sure the Suzie dealer is recommended, what are you going to do when one acts up under warranty?
Don't bet against nothing ever going wrong.

The biggest complaint up here on Suzies as I read is unavailablity of replacement parts other than routine parts like filters - on a timely basis. We do have plenty of dealers though locally.
 

Grog

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It seems like the outboard mechanics like keeping you over the barrel and at their mercy. How about a memtioning buying a good pair of carbed motors you can do yourself on your way out of the dealer?
 

jekyl

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Part of my reason for starting this thread is to do exactly that.ie have an alternative . None of us like it when dealers take your business for granted.
Here in Townsville we have only one of each outboard manufacter represented. In the smaller towns north and south we have other dealers also.
The local Yamaha dealer has just changed hands and the new owner is not helpful, he seems intent on making as much money from me as possible . He has even stated that as i didn't buy the boat/motors from him then it's not his problem and he'll just keep on charging for every minute taken to solve the problem.
His mechanics are doing as much as they can, but even they are now embarrased by his profitteering.
It is not a simple problem, obviously it is mine, and whilst i do expect to pay, the dealer is not taking into account his proffessional reputation whilst the problem goes unfixed. Interesting how many friends have said "he's not gonna charge you this time?" So there is an expectation that a proffessional person has an obligation to solve the problem even if it is not his doing.......
 

BobP

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Not every mechanic, doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc. is good at all tasks, some don't even bother wanting to be any better, that's just the way it is.
It's not the first time a dealer reflects negatively on the manufacturer's product and reputation.

There's always going to be an in-demand mechanic around, perhaps one or two in a lot, that not only like these problem motors, but thrives on and prides himself on solving problems when others throw in the towel !

It's not a question of money, you don't seem to be someone looking for something for nothing.

Contact Yamaha, perhaps they will fly a troubleshooter down there to take care of it! I expect they would at the minimum investigate. Worth a try. Just make sure you say the mechanics are doing all they can, but they just can't figure it out. Leave the other stuff out.
 

jekyl

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thanks for the tip unfortunately he is on the other side of Oz like I'm in DC and he's in San Francisco. So, good for a talk. But that's about it.
One of the frustrating things is that Yamaha Australia aren't all that full of good advice either.....So whilst the brand has a great reputation and I have had great results with Yammies before. This not something they usually see.
 

richmake

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I caught on to this topic late but I'll give my input anyway's.
I've got the vessel below and I can't say enough about the zukes...
Love them...
I agree with all above me who commented on servicing...doesn't do you any good if you buy an engine you can't have worked on easily...

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