Time for the washdown and livewell pumps

[Lt.Mike]

Ok the boat had is spring run in the Delaware River with a couple of hours cruising on it to confirm all the effort spent on it over the winter wasn't a waste of time, effort, and expense. A lot of anxiety was generated in that run but now with it having gone well I'm feeling more confident with the new (to me) motor and can actually smile.
Its back at the house now parked next to my barn with all my tools handy to properly install the washdown pump I've been sitting on for a year.
I have a WM 4.0 kit, I added to that a water outlet fixture for the hose to connect to (as the factory did), with a bronze Groco water strainer/pickup and ball valve. I plan to connect a rule dual port livewell pump to the ball valve. My Overnghter came with a little rule pump mounted in the rear baitwell. It recirculates the water with no provision for filling with raw water short of dumping a bucket into it. Throw some peanut bunker into it and the pumps screen would clog with their scales in short order.
I figure as long as I'm drilling a hole in my boat and I'm squeezing myself into the bilge I'll get that done right too.
The pump I bought has a small strainer that mounts directly on the side of the pump. Space is tight and once the pump is mounted I'm wondering how accessible do I need to make it to clear that screen. The pumps specs says its self priming to 10' though I have my doubts its that good. I'm considering mounting another strainer screen on the transom below the deck plate where it may be easier to maintain. It'd be a couple inches higher than the pump. The strainer the pump comes with isn't all that large either and I'm wondering how prone to clogging it'll be?
Another note of concern is the small drain the baitwell has. Its only about an inch (?) maybe the 1 1/8" stand pipe is what I need but might the average livewell pump overfill the wells ability to drain it off? Will I need to install a larger drain?
I suppose I could always choke back the water intake.
It's also a bit of an anxiety mill getting myself ready to drill that hole in the bottom of my boat. :shock:.
Looking forward to the end result but not the cutting part. :roll:
Mike.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I remembered I actually have a Rule Variable Flow Control Valve on hand from my Bayliner that I can use.
I have to choose now between the 500 and 800gph livewell pumps. What do you guys think? Go big or conservative?
Mike.

 

[seasick]

I remembered I actually have a Rule Variable Flow Control Valve on hand from my Bayliner that I can use.
I have to choose now between the 500 and 800gph livewell pumps. What do you guys think? Go big or conservative?
Mike.

The best approach is to match what the factory size was. If your pump is over sized, your drain may not be able to handle the flow and your tank will overflow. Too much flow will also stress fish
In general one rule of thumb is that you should exchange the water about 6 times an hour. if you had a 80 quart( 20 ga)l livewell, 6 times that would equate to 120 gph. In that case a 500 gph sounds too big but the rating is best case . The truth is that pickups, valves, hose runs and bends all reduce the flow rate. The 10 foot spec you mention is lift not run. In other words the pump in an ideal situation could pump the water up a hose to a height of 10 feet. Of course, there would be reduced flow from the spec. Horizontal length would generally be longer but all the factors I mentioned add up to restrict flow.
The bottom line is that bigger may not be better and couldbe worse

 

[Lt.Mike]

The livewell on my Overnighter is 40qt./10gal. and having checked the manual and brochures for 1987 and even for the new boats there is no factory GPH number to go with.
What I have now, a rule 450gph unit, pumps water from the well back into the well through a sprayer bar and there is no lift. The factory apparently used a washdown pump with a diverter valve to direct the water to either the washdown hose or the livewell. There is no mention as to the capacity of the factory pump. I referred to the WM site and the specs on modern pump output rates which range from 3.5 - 5.2gpm (210gph - 312gph).
You would think that the bigger washdown pump would move more water than a 500gph rule pump but even the bigger 5.2gpm washdown pumps in comparison would be only 312gph flowing freely. Flowing freely has to be the clue in the difference as I have to assume the washdown pump has the ability to provide pressure while the rule livewell doesn't. Going on those numbers I have to assume that the smaller 500gph pump would be fine and given what you've said seasick would probably be my best choice. I can utilize the Rule variable flow valve to slow the flow down further if necessary. Then again, I may still opt for the larger pump with a diverter valve with the intention of plumbing the starboard side fishbox as a recirculating livewell. I already have it sealed up and outfitted with an air bubbler for use with larger bunker for livelining. It works but I have to fill it with a bucket. :roll: :lol: Guess I'm getting lazy.
While the 1987 factory setup requires the user to manually divert the water flow to either hose or well, the setup I'm about to install would enable both features to run at the same time as the newer models do at the flip of a switch. The newer models have two separate water pickups though. I'm going to get by with one. One hole is going to be hard enough to drill in my hull.
Is there anyone with a newer Adventure 20 that can tell me what their rule livewell pump rating is?
Mike

 

[buguy]

Someone recommended to me here that I could put a variable timer on my pump. I found one today at my local marine surplus for $60. Something like that would allow you to fine tune a pump if it has too much flow.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I can adjust the flow with the valve made by Rule. The valve actually makes it very easy to install as a thru hull fitting for the wall of the live well.
I had no room for a livewell on my old Bayliner so I mounted a Todd 18 gal. livewell on the outside of the transom and mounted a 500 gal pump below the water line. It went thru the rule variable rate valve which I installed because I thought I might have to cut back on the flow. I never did though and it worked very well while I was drifting. I ran an air pump when the boat was on plane or on the trailer.
It worked so good I'd have fish flipping on my lawn when I got home.
I also mounted a transom light behind the tank so it would light it up at night.
Sometimes I'd leave the light on when trailering home.
People could see the fish swimming in the tank as we drove.
It was kinda funny, distracting maybe, but everyone who passed us gave thumbs up.
I'd still like to know what gph ratings other folks have for their livewell pumps.
Mike

 

[seasick]

The livewell on my Overnighter is 40qt./10gal. and having checked the manual and brochures for 1987 and even for the new boats there is no factory GPH number to go with.
What I have now, a rule 450gph unit, pumps water from the well back into the well through a sprayer bar and there is no lift. The factory apparently used a washdown pump with a diverter valve to direct the water to either the washdown hose or the livewell. There is no mention as to the capacity of the factory pump. I referred to the WM site and the specs on modern pump output rates which range from 3.5 - 5.2gpm (210gph - 312gph).
You would think that the bigger washdown pump would move more water than a 500gph rule pump but even the bigger 5.2gpm washdown pumps in comparison would be only 312gph flowing freely. Flowing freely has to be the clue in the difference as I have to assume the washdown pump has the ability to provide pressure while the rule livewell doesn't. Going on those numbers I have to assume that the smaller 500gph pump would be fine and given what you've said seasick would probably be my best choice. I can utilize the Rule variable flow valve to slow the flow down further if necessary. Then again, I may still opt for the larger pump with a diverter valve with the intention of plumbing the starboard side fishbox as a recirculating livewell. I already have it sealed up and outfitted with an air bubbler for use with larger bunker for livelining. It works but I have to fill it with a bucket. :roll: :lol: Guess I'm getting lazy.
While the 1987 factory setup requires the user to manually divert the water flow to either hose or well, the setup I'm about to install would enable both features to run at the same time as the newer models do at the flip of a switch. The newer models have two separate water pickups though. I'm going to get by with one. One hole is going to be hard enough to drill in my hull.
Is there anyone with a newer Adventure 20 that can tell me what their rule livewell pump rating is?
Mike

When a single pump is used for both wash-down and livewell, the pump should be rated for continuous duty . In effect a livewell pump. There is a trade off since the flow rate needed for the livewell will generally be less that what you would want for a washdown. The output pressure is directly related to the lift rating whereas the flow is more closely related to the GPH rating. For washdown the pressure is more of an issue than flow rate. For livewell, too much pressure ( which makes the water swirl fast)can be bad for the fish.
Of course, both ratings are interelated to a great degree.
If I remember correctly, two years ago my original livewell pump was 450gph and I replaced it with a 500gph Rule

 

[Lt.Mike]

Well I ended up ordering a new livewell pump last night. It's a dual port 800gph Rule 403FC. I also ordered two Rule variable rate valves, one for each live well.
I will hook the West Marine 4.0gpm washdown pump I have into the port provided on the livewell pumps tube which connects directly to the seacock.
I have to shop around now for a diverter valve for the two livewells. I'm going to try to find one that has a handle that I can flip without going into the bilge. Let's see if they make them like a battery switch, one, two, or both (?). That'd be nice.
Incidentally, I intend to use sprayer bars on both wells so that will limit swirl or currant.
Mike

 

[Lt.Mike]

Found what I need at...
https://www.wakemakers.com/bosworth-y-v ... hgodIiMC-g
This should make a nice, clean, and easy to use installation. Good price too. :wink:
Mike

 

[seasick]

The valve is interesting but the model shown takes 1" tubing. The Rhule fittings are 3/4" so some sort of adaptors/reducers will be needed unless the valve comes in a 3/4" version

 

[Lt.Mike]

The valve is interesting but the model shown takes 1" tubing. The Rhule fittings are 3/4" so some sort of adaptors/reducers will be needed unless the valve comes in a 3/4" version

I knew that but I had to go with the 1" to get the model I could adjust outside of the bilge with a clean look. Its an easy thing to get a reducer rather than buy one that's too small like a 1/2" valve that WM sells. Plus I saved about $30 buying from Wakemakers. Between the pump, and valves I saved a total of almost $70 shopping around as opposed to just getting it all at WM. I do my best to keep that "hole in the water" as small as it can be. :roll:
So far my wife is good with the spending and I'd like to keep it that way. :wink:
Mike.

 

[seasick]

The valve is interesting but the model shown takes 1" tubing. The Rhule fittings are 3/4" so some sort of adaptors/reducers will be needed unless the valve comes in a 3/4" version

I knew that but I had to go with the 1" to get the model I could adjust outside of the bilge with a clean look. Its an easy thing to get a reducer rather than buy one that's too small like a 1/2" valve that WM sells. Plus I saved about $30 buying from Wakemakers. Between the pump, and valves I saved a total of almost $70 shopping around as opposed to just getting it all at WM. I do my best to keep that "hole in the water" as small as it can be. :roll:
So far my wife is good with the spending and I'd like to keep it that way. :wink:
Mike.

Good luck. One piece of advice is to seal the inside edge of the hole before bedding the fitting. You may want the hole to be a tad larger than the fitting to allow room for the sealant and the bedding compound.
The material I would use for the sealing of the inside of the hole is epoxy. You can buy a small kit. MarineTex is fine too if you have some on hand. Make sure that you let it dry before installing the fitting
The actual fitting should have something like 5200 applied liberally under the outside and inside mounting flange. Make it pretty snug, but don't overtighten, you don't want to squeeze out all the 5200. If you seal the inside of the hole as mentioned, you don't have to slather 5200 all over the threaded section of the through hull.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I've been doing the research on the work for a while now learning what tips I can before I get into it. Awhile back I found this video on youtube, you've got to love youtube for stuff like this, anyway its made by wakemakers who are the same people I bought the valve from. I hadn't made the connection until I went back now to find the video. Here it is and I think it lays it out pretty well.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8oprSN59A8[/youtube]
In the event that the video doesn't play here is another link....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8oprSN59A8
Oh and 5200 is my friend :lol:
Mike

 

[seasick]

I've been doing the research on the work for a while now learning what tips I can before I get into it. Awhile back I found this video on youtube, you've got to love youtube for stuff like this, anyway its made by wakemakers who are the same people I bought the valve from. I hadn't made the connection until I went back now to find the video. Here it is and I think it lays it out pretty well.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8oprSN59A8[/youtube]
In the event that the video doesn't play here is another link....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8oprSN59A8
Oh and 5200 is my friend :lol:
Mike

Good video. There was one comment that I might argue. It was said that the sealant under the nut is optional although he did apply it.
In my original post, I mentioned sealing the inside of the hole with epoxy. The reason is that if water leaks in either from the outside or the bilge, the fiberglass hull will wick up that water. If the moisture seeps in from the bilge, it will stay there just about forever. That's just my 2 cents

 

[Lt.Mike]

There's good info in every how to you find and there is also things you have to filter. The sealant being optional is one of those things.
I'm with you on that and I'll be using enough sealant on this boat to make 3M stock go up. :mrgreen:
The magnet trick is slick but think I'm going to use the strongest ones I have for the Gradys hull. :wink: This ain't no Bayliner hull.
I also like the tip of running the drill in reverse to get through the gelcoat and then beveling it with a grinding bit to prevent it from cracking.
They lay it out well enough to encourage you into taking the project on.
Once all the parts come in and the sun decides to shine for more than an afternoon I'll get to it.
Mike.

 

[seasick]

There's good info in every how to you find and there is also things you have to filter. The sealant being optional is one of those things.
I'm with you on that and I'll be using enough sealant on this boat to make 3M stock go up. :mrgreen:
The magnet trick is slick but think I'm going to use the strongest ones I have for the Gradys hull. :wink: This ain't no Bayliner hull.
I also like the tip of running the drill in reverse to get through the gelcoat and then beveling it with a grinding bit to prevent it from cracking.
They lay it out well enough to encourage you into taking the project on.
Once all the parts come in and the sun decides to shine for more than an afternoon I'll get to it.
Mike.

I have to admit that I was not aware of the magnet trick. I would like to see if that works on thick hulls. I know my hull is a lot thicker than 1/2 inch.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I have to admit that I was not aware of the magnet trick. I would like to see if that works on thick hulls. I know my hull is a lot thicker than 1/2 inch.

I know I won't know how thick the hull actually is until I put the holesaw to it but I read your post and then I couldn't wait, I had to try it. :mrgreen:
I went out to my barn and dug out two magnets....

I lowered the larger one into a spot near the general area of where I think the through hull will go then went underneath to see if it would stick.
Well, it works! How about that!

I went with larger magnets because I didn't really think the little button magnets used in the video would be strong enough.
Mike

 

[DennisG01]

That's ingenious! I've always been in and out of the boat 3 times measuring, estimating, measuring... measuring again... Thanks for the tip - that is going in my mental "toolbox" for later use!

 

[Lt.Mike]

That's ingenious! I've always been in and out of the boat 3 times measuring, estimating, measuring... measuring again... Thanks for the tip - that is going in my mental "toolbox" for later use!

Thanks goes to WakeMakers.com and their video they posted on Youtube. Lots of good info in a video on a rather intimidating project,
putting a hole in your boat...on purpose! :shock:
Mike.
Incidentally I contacted Wakemakers tech support line on the valve I bought from them. They gave friendly advice on how I could hook up the valve and what connections to use and it didn't involve me sending them any more cash. Good people, I'll be calling them for what I might need in the future.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I know my hull is a lot thicker than 1/2 inch.

Think again.
I set to install the through hull bronze strainer in my hull today. I call Grady's tech support today to verify my choice of placement. 9" To port of the keel and 9" forward of the stern. They said that would work. I asked how thick could I expect the hull to be for an '87. They said the same as they are built today, 1/2 - 3/4". :huh Like I said, think again, the plug I cut out that wasn't quite 1/2" thick. The Grady dealer near me considered that plenty thick though I considered adding material. The Groco strainer I installed has 4 additional support bolts which I installed with double stainless fender washers, lock washers, and stainless/nylon stop nuts. All that along with the bronze strainer nut and 3M 5200 make it feel really solid. When I installed the bronze Groco ball valve it didn't flex or show any sign that it'll move and I cranked down on it.
Gotta say I've had more fun projects. Working in this tight bilge area is akin to working under an old car with all that crap falling into your face while you work. It definitely would have been easier to do when the engine was off but that was November and I had a different schedule then. It wasn't fun jamming myself into position so I could reach where this was mounted though I did choose the most accessible area of the bilge. There is just no room to work. In the process I managed to scrape my knuckles, cracked my head on a bolt under the trailer, and upon stretching my head so I could see what I was doing managed to smear I big glop of 5200 into my mustache :evil: ( with a resounding SOB!)
( I'll laugh tomorrow).
I paid my dues on this one, and I've still a bunch more to do. :roll:
Mike.