Twin Engine Handling (or lack thereof)

[LI Grady]

I'm getting more and more frustrated over the dock side handling, exspecially reverse with my Marlin. It's a 1990 with 250's.

My marina doesn't have finger slips so I have to dock bow in so I don't need to reverse, spin, etc often. Good thing because I couldn't afford the damage I would cause. Seriously, this weekend in a tight marina with a strong (20mph and higher gust) cross wind I nearly wiped out an entire line of boats.

I trim my motors down but no matter what I can only spin the boat about half way around. After that it just crabs sideways.

In reverse with the motors straight I go to the side 2-3 feet for every foot I go backwards.

This is killing me. I've run inboards for 15 years and can dock cross ways to a full blown Nor'easter yet I jump on this thing and even on a calm day I look like a complete moron as soon as I have to back in to a slip or back up in general.

Any suggestions short of adding a bow thruster or taking up golf?

Thanks

 

[gwwannabe]

Everything I read on backing these boats says to trim the motors up so the thrust is going under the hull as opposed to washing against it. That's what making your boat crab sideways. Even my little Overnighter behaves better trimmed up while backing.

Gary 89 Overnighter

 

[LI Grady]

How far up? I've tried it trimed up to about 3 -3 1/2 on the meter with the same problems.

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

When i sold my diesels inboard and got the 306 bimini, i tried to dock (i always have) stern first and my instant thought was to take up golf. I really almost crushed my boat on an average calm day(not much wind).
The only thing i found to help(without the thruster,i don't use it anyway)
is put on motor in reverse but maybe 1500-2000 rpms depending on current/wind and control the boat with one engine only(i do have my motors tilt up a little).

 

[Grog]

Trim them up. I have a Sailfish and the first windy day make me NUTS. Take her out and practice where you can't hit anything, it takes time. It should spin (not like an inboard) but it does take quite a bit of revs for the reverse motor.

 

[ElyseM]

20 mph cross winds will be hairy for anyone docking a light boat (i usually hand it off to my marina guys at that level and they even need to think about it to get it in the slip).

i would recommend getting a very experienced captain (with o/b's) to work with you. practice will improve skills. also, don't hesitate to use spring lines. maybe you should layup to a pole and spring gently around it. that's what i had to do in the slip i was in. that would entail coming closer to your slip before starting the turn. as far a backing up, same thing happens to me so i build that into the approach. like i said, practice will improve the skill -- and don't beat yourself up if it isn't perfect, that just serves to put pressure on yourself. ron

 

[Legend]

My sailfish will spin using one engine forward at a constant speed and I use the reverse to spin the boat by reving the engine in reverse. I have pretty good luck when winds and current are calm, however, Saturday I had issues because of the NW wind and outgoing tide. It is just about impossible to control with that combination in my marina. It is frustrating to see the 40 foot Searay beside me just slide into his slip with twin diesels. Just one of the trade offs of dealing with a twin outboard package.

 

[LUNDINROOF]

I just ordered my first twin engine boat (Release 283 w/250 Yahamas) and was looking forward to the added manuverablity of twins. You guys are scaring hell out of me. I thought this would make docking easier???

 

[sickday]

I just ordered my first twin engine boat (Release 283 w/250 Yahamas) and was looking forward to the added manuverablity of twins. You guys are scaring hell out of me. I thought this would make docking easier???

The older Grady White Outboards are positioned closer together making maneuvering more difficult. I have a 2001 Marlin and am still trying to master it. Sometimes I nail it perfect when pulling in my slip wind or not, and sometimes I look like a baffoon going in with no wind or tide! I'm still practicing and I feel like eventually I will be able to do it with my eyes closed. Its definately not a lost cause. Just got to figure out the mannerisms of our boats then use them to our advantage.

 

[sluggoe]

got a 02 sailfish w/ twin f225's and with wind at 15 knots or greater it is very difficult to control when i am spinning 180 degrees to go in stern first.....as was said b4, use forward at constant speed and use reverse to control how fast she turns;

there is a lot of surface area expsoed on the bridge are in my sailfish especially with the eisenglass up....the wind just picks the boat up and throws it for a loop;

if conditions are bad, then go the easy route....make sure you have someone on board to help dock or someone at the dock to throw u a line or otherwise help out.

--slugg

 

[Fishermanbb]

If you are trying to dock in winds that strong you should try raising the "Smiley's" (Canvas on the sides). This will reduce your "Sail" area and slow down the beam movement when docking. However, a couple of things:

1. Trimming the motors up a little will give you a little more power in reverse but will not stop you from drifting in the wind sideway.

2. When you spin the boat you need to use the throttle. Too little and you are going nowhere - But where the wind/tide takes you..

3. Even with twins you'll need to put the boat in proper position with the wind/tide. Always try going into the wind/tide. If possible and you need to, go past your slip/turn around and Then approach using you outside engine to power forward and your inside engine to spin the bow into the slip.

4. Sometimes no matter how good you are you are going to miss. 20 know winds are going to push you around and you need to use the throttles to compensate. Bring it out East for a day and I'll show you great place to practice.

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

If you are trying to dock in winds that strong you should try raising the "Smiley's" (Canvas on the sides). This will reduce your "Sail" area and slow down the beam movement when docking. However, a couple of things:

1. Trimming the motors up a little will give you a little more power in reverse but will not stop you from drifting in the wind sideway.

2. When you spin the boat you need to use the throttle. Too little and you are going nowhere - But where the wind/tide takes you..

3. Even with twins you'll need to put the boat in proper position with the wind/tide. Always try going into the wind/tide. If possible and you need to, go past your slip/turn around and Then approach using you outside engine to power forward and your inside engine to spin the bow into the slip.

4. Sometimes no matter how good you are you are going to miss. 20 know winds are going to push you around and you need to use the throttles to compensate. Bring it out East for a day and I'll show you great place to practice.

Best place to practice is POE gas dock #2, i have 1" on each side 8)

 

[Tashmoo]

I have a 275 with a single 350 and in the wind it is very very hard to dock. On top of it I have a port side slip backing in so the prevailing wind and the engine rotation are working against me.

After an entire summer of fighting with my docking I have learned as many here have said here to trim up the engine 3 -4 bars. I have also learned to over shoot the slip by two boat lengths and back up to the slip swinging the bow to port as I am entering the slip. The momentum of the bow swinging overcomes the prevailing winds that try to push the bow to starboard as I back into the slip. My success rate in docking has gone way up using this technique. The other technique I have tried is to go past my slip and turn around between the fingers and come back up on the slip but in high wind turning around is impossible at low speed in close quarters.

 

[Capt Bill]

You've got tons of good advice here, and the only thing I will add is that when the winds are blowing 15-20, you will have to use everything at your disposal to get her in the slip. That means pivoting on a piling, and/or using a spring line. Don't worry about trying to do it only with the engines. There are times that you just can't, with close-spaced outboards, lots of sail area (bridge enclosure, and no bow thruster. Don't be shy about asking someone on the dock, for assistance.

Keep the engines trimmed up enough to direct the reverse thrust under the boat, and not at the transom. 4-blade props provide a little better close-quarters handling, (my personal experience), than 3-blades.

As others have said, practice, get someone to go with you who has experience on that model boat.

 

[magicalbill]

Capt. Bill and everyone are correct..

I will not add to their comments as I would just say the same thing a different way.
This is pertinent, I think.

I always try to back into the slip with my Gulfstream(twin 200's) with THROTTLES ONLY. I straighten the wheel and do it with the engines.

Obviously when the wind is blowing even moderately this isn't possible. So..Plan B is to treat it as a single and use the wheel and both throttles simultaneously..like you would a single engine boat.

For me personally, I get overwhelmed when I try to throttle the engines separately and spin the wheel too. It's too much to think about; one action undoes the other and I'm in big trouble quickly.

 

[mronzo]

I'm on a narrow and very shallow at low tide canal
4 houses from the corner and tie the boat facing out.
I swing my 265 around at the corner and back down the center of the canal
with no problems except on the windiest days 20kts NE.
At low tide it's less stressful than trying to turn around, hitting mud and
having the boat swing around and hit a neighbor's boat.
I trim the engines up a bit to give me more clearance as I get to my dock.
You can't be afraid of giving it some gas in shots when docking in any wind!
The thing with docking though is that for all those times you do it PERFECTLY!
no one is there to see you... but there is always a witness when it's less than perfect!

 

[magicalbill]

Fishermanabb has a great point too..

Roll up your side curtains..I drop all my canvas with a beam crosswind. It significantly reduces your vulnerability to be blown off-course. Better to re snap it than be mad about a nick in the gel that might have been avoided.

I have never operated a twin-inboard rig, but always wondered how they would back stern-to into a slip, wind or not, with little or no problem.
Having learned on the Grady Site here that OB's are not near as maneuverable dockside, it makes me feel a little less like an idiot when I can't get my Gulfstream into the dock and they breeze in 1st time.
Kinda makes me feel like I have an excuse for being incompetent.

Hey Lundinroof..Here's hoping you really enjoy your Release. The twins DO matter and they DO help.If I had to sum it all up in one sentence..

"Never approach a dock any faster than your willing to slam into it."

 

[ksgoldman]

So with all of this discussion back-and-forth, would any of you suggest adding a bow thruster? I'll be launching a new 2010 Tournament 275 (with twin Yamaha 150's) next April and have been debating adding a bow thruster. I know that it's the coward's way out and most of the time I'm tied up at a mooring (although I do dock occasionally). My best time to ever add a thruster is before the boat is launched for the first time and as much as I hate to spend the money (or be caught using a thruster), it's potentially worth it not to be so frustrated in trying to dock the boat (or worse yet, causing damage that exceeds what the thruster would have cost me in the first place).

Just curious what people think.

 

[journeyman]

I don't have twins so no operational advice here, but my 2 cents:

For me, when the wind blows from the North (off my starboard side slip), I simply dock bow in. Several people on my dock, even some with twins, do the same. I sometimes think backing into a slip is more of a social thing than anything else.

I would love having a bow thruster and wouldn't be shy or ashamed to use it.

 

[ElyseM]

So with all of this discussion back-and-forth, would any of you suggest adding a bow thruster? I'll be launching a new 2010 Tournament 275 (with twin Yamaha 150's) next April and have been debating adding a bow thruster. I know that it's the coward's way out and most of the time I'm tied up at a mooring (although I do dock occasionally). My best time to ever add a thruster is before the boat is launched for the first time and as much as I hate to spend the money (or be caught using a thruster), it's potentially worth it not to be so frustrated in trying to dock the boat (or worse yet, causing damage that exceeds what the thruster would have cost me in the first place).

Just curious what people think.

i wouldn't think twice about it on an ordered boat. retro-fit, maybe think a while. they are very inexpensive when you build a boat and it doesn't make sense to decline them. ron