Using Alcohol Stoves for Heat

[LI Grady]

I've never thought about this before since my other boats all had gennys and heat (reverse cycle and electric), but is it safe to use the alcohol stove to heat up the cabin? I know Origo who makes the stove also makes a heat pail so on one hand I wonder how differant they can be in concept.

Its getting real cold up here and I'm not giving up on striper season yet so the possiblity of having a warmer (if only slightly) cabin and helm area(as the heat rises up and out the hatch) is very appealling.

Oviously I would have the hatch door open and the middle portion of the canvas enclosure open.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

 

[plymouthgrady]

I wouldn't recommend it for the simple fact of the fumes that it will give off.
Small marine heaters are available for your exact application.
http://www.boatersworld.com/product/338260094.htm

 

[bhemi]

Heater

The heater you suggest requires electricity. I have the same model and run my genny for a few minutes and it gets the cabin very toasty.

His issue is no genny. The alchohol stove throws decent heat and if you get the proper fuel I have never found a problem with fumes. Any time you are combusting anything just make sure you have proper ventilation.

Another thing is I keep my boat in the water all winter and leave it hooked to shore power. I run my heater all winter long on low. My boat is clean and dry and has no humidity or mildew issues. If I crank up the heat 1/2 hour before leaving the dock and zip up the canvas it stays warm for quite awhile.

 

[plymouthgrady]

Thought it was a DC heater. Sorry!

 

[LI Grady]

Thanks for the input.

It looks like the stove and the heat pail use the same fuel which I'd pick up at West. Fumes/CO issues have me a bit concered but then again I don't plan on being down in the cabin much.

 

[BobP]

Wear two pair of socks, polypropylene long john and t top underwear, insulated/waterproof work shoes, insulated coverals and two layers of tops incl. hellys, two pairs of gloves. Wool hat and hood over hat.

Used to be out there to 2nd week of December in a open 20 ft center console, night fishing after work as well, watching it snow while sliding on the deck ice.

Problem solved naturally, by age.

Now I'm out a month earlier !

 

[LI Grady]

:lol: You know Bob I'm fast approaching that point as well lol

Then again there is nothing like being the only boat on the bay, with the sun coming up and putting a glow on the sky, crisp clear air, a hot cup of coffee in your hand and the optimisim that there is still one big bass out there willing to commit suicide on my hook

 

[ocnslr]

We have the next three months of striped bass fishing down here. Maybe even into March.

I also keep a small electric heater running in the slip, but use a Mr. Buddy, Jr. when out. Makes the entire enclosure toasty warm..

Brian

 

[CJBROWN]

Watch out for tons of moisture and carbon monoxide. I would get a catalytic heater that uses propane bottles. Less moisture, still a problem with CO though.

 

[capt chris]

Down here I've used a propane heater held inside a milk crate. It works great and have never had a fume problem. Regardless of what you decide on have a CO detector with you in the cockpit. Better safe than sorry!

 

[Tashmoo]

As a combustion engineer my comment to you is NEVER use it as a heater. You do not notice CO build up for one, it is odorless and tasteless. Second, it accumulates in your blood and takes a long time to get out and as such repeated exposure in short duration reduces you tolerance. Finally, when combustion parameters are out of whack (and they can be for a pile of reasons) the CO generation rate can increase by an order of magnitude or more. That means the flame that was heating you one day and putting our 100 PPM of CO could produce 1,000 PPM of CO on another day. You are inhaling ten time the CO per minute and you will never know it. Don't do it, if you can afford a boat buy a properly vented heater.

 

[capt chris]

As an EMT let me say Tashmoo is right. CO has 257 times the affinity for your hemoglobin (oxygen carrying red blood cells) as oxygen does and you usually die from a heart attack brought on by progressive cardiac hypoxia (lack of oxygen). The old tell tale signs of cherry red skin or cyanosis (blue skin) almost never present with CO poisoning. A 50% carboxyhemoglobin level can be fatal and it takes about 7 hrs to come back to a 20% acceptable level in fresh air, 2hrs on 100% O2, and about 30 minutes in a hyperbaric chamber @ 100% O2 @ 2 atmospheres. I've made many of these runs over the years and they seldom have a happy outcome. It's a silent killer, so be careful.

 

[Fishtales]

Hi,
As stated not a good idea and having an open flame onboard without it being constantly attended is a scary thought.
If you really need heat, why not a small honda generator? Spend some time and run some cords so they are out of the way and add and a couple of good small electric heaters. one in the cabin and one in the helm area could do it.
More work than the stove, but much safer.

 

[BobP]

LI Grady - get that bass for me !

I get a cold nose just thinking about being out drifting eels tonight at Jones ! Is it snowing yet ?

You can use propane portable heaters just be sure to have some ventilation. The small heaters unless in a closed (but vented) area are going to be good for keeping toes warm, not alot more if it's cold and windy out (liek today).

Better than nothing. You will get a lot more heat from two Mr. buddys than the honda electric generator can put out.

Up on the bridge behind the canvas is the best place. I used one on my 204C. I'd say avoid the cabin.

The small propane heaters, just like properly operating natural gas ranges in our homes, give off a tiny amount of CO, harmless, otherwise those cooking in their homes on Long Island with gas would be layed out regularly at the curbside for pickup like so many recyclables. Not to mention the ovens working the turkeys next week!

Of course, if you get a headache, don't take an advil, get out and check on the ventilation immedialely!

 

[BobP]

Ocnslr Brian, another 3 months? Go ahead rub it in !

 

[Tashmoo]

BobP,

Not busting you nads here but wanted to give you some facts about using a stove or un-vented LP heater in a confined space.

An average kitchen in an older home without ventilation has in the range of 1,800 cubic feet of volume, the cabin of a boat might have 400 cubic feet. The average kitchen that is connected to a small to midsized house has an additional 13,000+ cubic feet of a volume.

Assuming a ratio of 14,800 to 400 cubic feet, the dilution rate of CO in ambient air in a house is arguably 37 time that of the cabin of a boat. So the time that it takes to be overcome by the same CO source is 37 times faster in a boat and that ignores fresh air infiltration rates which are much higher in a house.

Also FYI, the burners on a stove put off CO at a rate that is a lot higher than your LP or NG gas furnace as it is not controlled combustion. A home kitchen range has a maximum throughout rate (four burners plus oven) between 20,000 and 40,000 BTU/hr, a home furnace in a house of the size I am describing uses 140,000 Btu/hr. The percentage of CO contributed by a fully functioning stove is substantial. I can tell you that I do not run my high throughput stove burners in the winter when the house is closed up without the vent on, but that's me.

This is why building code has been amended in most states to require ventilation in new and renovation construction with LP of NG cooking appliances and in MA requires CO detectors in all homes.

Again, not trying to pick a fight here just passing on some facts on a subject that I think is important.

 

[BobP]

Got to ventilate the cabin by keeping a window open. I made it clear - used the word "ventilate".

The Mr. Buddy and the like portable heaters are used exactly for this purpose, in a tent / boat, all the same. What good would they be for otherwise ?

I think I also added to keep the buddys on the bridge, all that canvas too, natural ventilator.

All it takes to be safe is an open window along with the cabin door - which by design doesn't seal well at all. My doors are sloted and have hidden screens too.

The house is not ventilated in winter, windows shut tight. ZERO ventilation.
And the range / cook top uses many times more natural gas or propane to work the oven and burners than the Buddys, and they will all be lit up come Turkey day!

So, do you need body bags for the family members and guests ?

??

On the other hand, a gas furnace exhaust is OUTSIDE THE HOUSE, not so with ranges, cook tops, wall ovens.

Any gas appliance however can misoperate and run too rich generating too much CO, hence the advise to use a CO alarm.

Don't know about alcohol stoves, didn't address it.

 

[ocnslr]

Ocnslr Brian, another 3 months? Go ahead rub it in !

Got our limit of four nice little rockfish in a couple of hours yesterday morning.

And, I forgot to mention that I have a CO detector mounted in the cabin.

We had the Mr. Buddy, Jr. with us, but didn't need it yesterday.

 

[BobP]

Brian, you're killing me, may have to stop reading threads until spring up here !

Could never get used to calling striped bass, rockfish.

If I see stripes, it's a striped bass! Plenty of other species look more like rocks to me !

 

[Grog]

Brian, you're killing me, may have to stop reading threads until spring up here !

Could never get used to calling striped bass, rockfish.

If I see stripes, it's a striped bass! Plenty of other species look more like rocks to me !

Yup! A Sea Bass or 'Tog is more of a "rockfish" up here.