Windlass wiring effecting electronics

Renovator

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My boat seems to be having a problem with what I think is a "momentary voltage drop" as I power up or down the existing windlass of which effects the sonar/GPS, etc. and I get re-set alarms. I know the factory prewires for the windlass but I am thinking I may need to run a dedicated "hot" back to the battery switch for the new windlass (I am replacing the existing). Just curious if that has been a problem for other GW owners or perhaps it's just this windlass.
Ron
 

Hookup1

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Windlass & Battery

I have a Horizon 500 Windlass on my boat with factory wiring. Works like a charm. It's actually wired to one of the starting batteries - not sure if this is factory or just a mixup - but I like the idea of a hot high amperage cranking battery for the windlass that is only intermittently used.

Anyway, unless you went to an oversized windlass the factory wiring should be fine. Make sure your connections to the battery are tight, your splice work is good, etc. Switch batteries or isolate windlass wires and move to another battery.

Check battery for a full charge. Should be 12.6 volts at battery. Run windlass and re-check battery voltage.

Does it spike the electronics every time? Letting it out? Bringing it in?
 

seasick

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Windlasses draw a lot of current. If it is tied into the fuse panel, you may not be sized adequately from the battery to the fuse panel. The fix is to run a dedicated fused feed from the battery selector output to the windlass.
Make sure the wire guage is adequate for the load. The wire size is determined by the amperage draw and the length of the run. The ground (return) side matters just as much as the feed, so you need to make sure that is also adequately sized
 

jehines3

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What boat and how many batteries and motors. I can help you fix the problem with that info. Also be sure the dedicated run if it is attached at the battery switch or battery terminal is fused. jh jh
 

ocnslr

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When I installed the Horizon 500 on our Islander, I used the factory installed "pre-wire" from the helm area to the bow.

I contacted the factory to ask where they picked up power, and they indicated right under the helm, off the basic feed from aft.

I did not consider it acceptable to rig the windlass from the same feed, i.e. a 25-amp windlass breaker with a 40-amp main breaker aft.

I ran an appropriately sized, dedicated feed from aft to the helm, just to supply the windlass. It has a 40-amp breaker aft.

Using the windlass has no effect on my electronics.

Brian
 

seasick

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Wires are sized for a particular percentage drop over their length. That drop is determined by current and length. If the main fuse panel is sized for a 40A breaker, it should be designed for approx 30 amps steady draw
worst case. I am sure that your windlass draws a lot of current and when added to the normal steady state draw from electronics, ignition, etc., you are probably exceeding the recommended voltage drop.
One question I have is " are your electronics actually resetting or are you getting low voltage alarms?" If it's only alarms, I have had issues with those and just disabled the alarms. The equipment runs fine.

If you have a voltmeter, connect it to something near the helm, perhaps the radio wires or a 12v accessory outlet. Turn on the normal stuff, start the motor, let it warm up and then measure the voltage. It will probably be somewhere over 13V. Hit the windlass and see what the voltage goes to. Many electronics register alarms when the voltage gets under 11.5 volts or so. Below 11v you will need to find the cause or run new wires.
Bad connections are also a possible source of voltage drop. Remember, the grounds (returns) are as important as the hot wires.
 

Renovator

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Boat is a 282 Sailfish and I believe the windlass was the factory option model(Sprint 600) of which has been discontinued. The electronics "blink" and I get a "pop up" that signal has been lost from the DSM(Raymarine). I am going to play it safe and run a homerun from the battery switch to the new breaker and then to the new contactor and bypass the buss bar that I think it may be tied into now. Should I run a new negative as well or just rely on the existing? I think you have to consider both for voltage drops. The prior breaker was a 35A and the new one is a 70A. Thanks for the info, Ron.
 

seasick

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If it looks like the negative is about the same size at the positive to the buss, I would run a new negative also. There are sites on the web to help you size the wire based on expected current draw and run length. Note that some wire calculators use the total round trip distance and others use the physical distance. You do not need to use the 70A breaker rating as the load. the actual load will be less. The manufacturer of the windless shoudl be able to tell you the typical draw.
Have fun pulling those cables:)
I looked up some info. For non critical electrical apps, the standards allow for a 10% voltage drop. For a 40 amp draw and a 40 ft roundtrip run (probably about right for your vessel), the recommended wire gauge is 8. You can get twin 8 guage cables that might make it easier to run since you will be dealing with one physical cable with two conductors. Make sure you get marine grade wire and connectors.
 

Hookup1

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Windlass Power

The contactor is a double-pole relay that switches + and - leads to the windlass. The - wire size is just as important. If they are not adequately sized change them both.

I just resolved a "low voltage" warning problem on my boat. It wasn't related to the windlass but there may be something related to your problem. When I ran the radar in transmit mode the Garmin would loose the signal from the GPS antenna. I got eratic voltage reading on my Garmin at the helm. Anywhere from 11.7 to 12.2. Even with the charger on. Intermittently the Garmin would shut down.

It could have been the battery but I my case the battery charger was only partially charging the house battery. The engine batteries were being charged by the engines (no low voltage readings on them). The new charger brings the battery up to 12.6 or better depending on the charger state. Charger on is typically higher 12.9 to 13.6 volts.

Your battery MUST charge to 12.5 / 12.6 volts as measured at the battery with a voltmeter charger off. A battery at 12.0 volts is 75% discharged.

If your battery voltage is low disconnect one side and put a portable charger on it. 12.6 or better after an overnight charge. If the house battery is 3 or more years old consider a new battery. I installed a larger deep cycle battery for the house.

After a new charger and battery I still have a low voltage reading at the Garmin. I check the voltage at the fuse strip under the helm and have 12.5 volts but at the Garmin I have 12.1. I was loosing .4 volts over a 2 foot distance. The previous owner used speaker wire to hookup the Garmin and all of the inline fuses had some high resistance corosion. The fuses would get banged around when the boat was running and shut the Garmin down. I replaced the inline fuses with a new fuse holder block and installed 12 awg wires from the helm fuse block to the Garmin.

Now I have 12.5 volts or better on the Garmin display and no gremlins. In my case the charger was not fully charging, the battery was replaced unnecessarly but was no-charge under warranty, poor wire sizing and bad fuse holders to Garmin unit. None or which relate to the radar or GPS antenna.

My point is your problem may have nothing to do with the windlass wiring. Given that the windlass was a factory install and the age of the boat it was probably done right. You need to get that voltmeter out and start checking from the battery forward.
 

Renovator

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Thanks for the advice. Speaking of battery chargers, should I be using mine? I will typically run the boat once or twice a month and I keep the battery switches off while on the lift.
 

Hookup1

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Battery charging

Mine is always on charge even though there is little on no load. I think you'll find most do the same.
 

seasick

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Re: Windlass Power

Hookup1 said:
My point is your problem may have nothing to do with the windlass wiring. Given that the windlass was a factory install and the age of the boat it was probably done right. You need to get that voltmeter out and start checking from the battery forward.

I suspect that it is the new windalss since the factory option called for a 35Abreaker and the new one calls for a 70A breaker. It definitely draws more current than the factory option and the wiring is most likely undersized. The 8 Gauge I mentions is OK for 40A draq but it is possible that your new model draws more. You need to get the maufacturer to tell you the actual draw and size the wires correctly. You will probably (most likely) need to run a new negative also.
 

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I would avoid the use of fuses in the windlass power circuit.

If you use a breaker, and size it right, the breaker will trip on overload and save your windlass motor when you do something stupid one day, like try to haul a stuck anchor up with it and go to locked rotor amps instead. If there is a breaker already at the dash, the breaker at the stern can be higher rated but no higher than the new cable is rated for continuous running amps at the cable temp spec.

Breakers are resetable so you don't have to fumble for a fuse at the worst possible time.

In the case of the motor feed, if you select the right rated breaker, it will protect the windlass from permanenet $$ motor damage. The windlass motor manuf will direct you to the right AWG gauge of the feed based on total length.

If you choose to run a neg feed also, the electronics will see half the voltage drop they would have seen if just going to new positive feed. You can try it out first, since copper power cable is not cheap.

The advice on breakers for motor circuits is universal, when the motor doesn't have built in overload protection, like a motor driven AC compressor have.

Modern electronics are way too sensitive to voltage drops, their power supplies are not sophisticated enough since the vendors are cheapng out to save a buck. Depending upon what you have, windlass wise and electronics wise, the solution you are undertaking may or may not work, if it doesn't work, then connecting the new power feed to starter battery will.
 

BobP

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Upon re-reading this - delete the 5th paragraph, the added neg feed has no impact on electronics.
 

Gary M

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I'm assuming that you have addressed the following during use....

1) Bow roller is lubed and rolling freely/easily.
2) Engines are running when it's in use.
3) You are driving/powering the boat over the anchor and not using the windlass to pull you up to the anchor.
4) You pop the engines in neutral and rev them to about 1,500 to put a little "juice" to the batts while pulling up the anchor.
 

Renovator

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Gary M- no roller but yes I do everything else but the slight engine rev.
Bob P- decided to run new pos/neg straight to battery and switch, figured while I was pulling wire why not and was not hard to do I might add. These rigging tubes and locations are much superior to other boats I have owned in the past. Now I just gotta sqeeze some time to finish it. Gas is down to $2.29 in our area now and I'm anxious to wet a line.