Wood Rot in anchor Box?

[DennisG01]

Here's another way to think about that hour glass. Imagine or actually do this... Take a piece of a wood and drill a hole through it. Now, take a drill bit that is about 50% bigger than the drill bit you used to drill the hole. Use that drill bit and drill just far enough to make a "counter sunk" hole. Meaning, you just create a chamfered edge around the circumference of the hole. Do the same thing to the other side. There's your double-end plug. But, as I mentioned above, this might be overkill for this situation. The epoxy is going to make a very tenacious bond to the fresh fiberglass.

Another way to think of it... put two funnels together to make an hour glass shape.

Soaking the wood... I've never used the stuff Dave is talking about, but from my experience, it takes AT LEAST 3 to 4 coats of epoxy till it stops soaking in... indicating it is soaking in pretty far - certainly more than enough for this situation. But without having first hand knowledge of the sealer, I certainly won't comment on whether the epoxy is soaking in as far as the sealer.

For me... and I suppose a lot of this is really what works best for ourselves... I'd rather epoxy the wood in place, then drill my mounting holes in one shot through both the fiberglass/epoxy and the wood.

EDIT: Looks like I was typing at the same time you turned the lights on regarding the hour glass!

 

[TonyD]

When I epoxy the holes - what do I place on the outside of the hull to keep the epoxy from seeping out the other side of things, to hold the epoxy in place?

 

[DennisG01]

When I epoxy the holes - what do I place on the outside of the hull to keep the epoxy from seeping out the other side of things, to hold the epoxy in place?

Here's a really fancy way to do it... are you ready? Tape.

 

[suzukidave]

and now i understand what the hourglass comment was about. i've never done that but i see how it would be extra security in key locations. thanks for the tip!

 

[TonyD]

Here's a really fancy way to do it... are you ready? Tape.

haha.. okay .. got it! Long day!

 

[TonyD]

hey there - I grinded out the inside - (maybe went too far?) I am going to start to epoxy the top hole (leave the bottom one alone) and I don't know, it just seems there isn't much hull left, am I just paranoid? I am going to do the his glass method and just paranoid by taking away what appears to be wood and damaging the structural integrity of the hull



Also, I was wondering - 2 part question - am I laying glass down first with epoxy THEN the wood? and I have some glass left over but it appears I have 2 different kinds - one is more cloth like? and the other has a shiny side

 

[SkunkBoat]

When I epoxy the holes - what do I place on the outside of the hull to keep the epoxy from seeping out the other side of things, to hold the epoxy in place?

FYI .....neither epoxy nor polyester resin stick to clear packaging tape. Use that to your advantage whenever possible.

 

[DennisG01]

I am going to do the his glass method and just paranoid by taking away what appears to be wood and damaging the structural integrity of the hull
/QUOTE]
Not quite understanding what you are saying there?

It's hard to tell from the pictures exactly how much you took away on the sides, but from what I can kind of tell by looking at the holes, you're fine. Besides, you can always add more glass back on.

There's no one best way to do the repair. But, you certainly could put a layer of the mat down, first (I would) - then the wood, then a layer of the cloth. Remember to shape the wood so the cloth lays over the edges nicely... or, if you wanted, it wouldn't be a bad idea to mix up some thickened epoxy and fillet the edge where the wood meets the hull.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Hard to see what you have there...looks like chopped strand matting but maybe with a cloth side?

Chopped strand(the fuzzy stuff) forms to dents and angles and bonds better than woven glass cloth.

Do you have WEST high density filler to add to the epoxy?

What I would do...
Don't mix anything yet!

Tape over the hole with clear packing tape to keep things from dripping out the front.

Pre-cut pieces of chopped strand to fit...
one maybe 12" x 12"..maybe less I can't tell from pix ..this one will be first on to cover what you have just ground clean.
a couple more smaller pieces that will go over your wood piece to glass it in place. You can't use one big piece because you have to tuck the glass into the corners and one big piece will fight you and leave air gaps.

Cut a v shaped wood block from a quality Douglas Fir 2x4...or or build a v-shaped block from progressively wider strips of exterior grade AB Douglas Fir plywood

Put on neoprene gloves

properly Mix a half cup of resin and hardener per instructions. Brush it onto the wood block or onto the strips of plywood and glue them together. soak all surfaces and edges with epoxy. set aside to cure.

if you done this fast enough and you have enough left over mix, wet the surface in your picture above and apply the 12x12 piece of chopped strand and brush on epoxy until fully wetted

take off the gloves and get a beer. wait for everything to harden.
I'm going to get more general here with the instructions....

The next step will be to mix epoxy with High density filler. At least a cup of peanut butter consistency filler. Gob it into the V of the bow and squish the wood block in there. (no air bubbles)
The fill in the gaps and fillet the edges so they are not 90 degree angles but more like radiused curves
take of the gloves and get another beer.

next step is to wet it all with epoxy and glass it over with chopped strand, fully wetting the glass.....beer....

next wet it all and glass it over with layers of woven glass cloth, fully wetting the glass...beer..

next day drill your holes and install bow eye. Use wide washers or better yet use a flat piece of aluminum or SS with two holes as a washer.

 

[TonyD]

Dennis, sorry - that was supposed to read:
I am going to do use the hourglass method but just paranoid of drilling further away at what is left of the hole already. It doesn't look like much of the hull is left after all the grinding.
BUT - that was then and now I think I have some clarity on what needs to be done and it seems that I am re-building this all so my paranoia is a little more settled.

I think I am going to have to back track a little and given skunk boat's tips, I might have to address the outside/exterior issue with the holes also. At first I wasn't going to worry about aesthetics, just wanted a strong hull where the bow eye is - but I think I am going to have to tackle this too to help remedy my problem.

 

[TonyD]

Skunkboat! Thank you for the detailed steps for getting this done -

Couple of question - but first the most important - what kind of beer do I get?

I will have to get some WEST Density Filler - need to take a run to West Marine.

but here are some bigger / better pictures to best help with what I have. I know I have a couple of different kinds from the last project I did but it was awhile ago and I don't remember what I ordered -

So in order of appearance I have a shiny looking fiberglass.. one side is shiny, (2nd pic) the other side is not shiny.

The 3rd picture is more is a fiberglass that I would picture to be fiberglass

and the 4th picture is, what I think is a matte or something?

 

[DennisG01]

Gotcha. The hull isn't real thick there to begin with. But if you want, you can use an extra large drill bit - and turn it by hand (or in a drill in reverse) so it doesn't bite too fast. Remember, you're using epoxy which is stronger than the polyester originally use. The epoxy will bond VERY well (permanently) with the polyester. The hourglass thing is simply a "backup" - but it also makes things stronger. But, truthfully, you really don't need to make the hole area "stronger" - that's the purpose of the backer plate/wood. But, you might as well grind away a little of chipping gelcoat and fill with epoxy, anyways. You can loosely cover it with tape, fill from the inside, then if needed, sand/smooth the exterior to shape. Use tape anywhere you DON'T want epoxy to be.

1) Biaxial 1708
3) mat
4) cloth

REMEMBER... have everything cut to the proper size and laid out before you mix any epoxy.

 

[suzukidave]

it looks good. good idea with only fixing one hole if you are sure the other one is going seal up ok.

i would not bother with any fibreglass tape here. i would just fill the hole from the inside with any epoxy filler (even marinetex) and let it set. there will be a big piece of wood backing this hole up and your new bow eye will also hold the plug in from the outside.

 

[SkunkBoat]

The pix 1 &2 is 1708. That is used as a fine finishing layer when you don't want the mesh of regular cloth or mat to bleed through to the final surface. Not necessary for the job you are doing.

the pic 3 is chopped strand mat. This is "building material". build layers. it conforms to bends much better than cloth.

pic 4 is glass cloth. there are different types of this in various thickness and mesh. The stuff pictured is fairly light and smooth but it will do for your job. Heavier stuff is called woven roving

I highly suggest going to the WEST SYSTEM website and reading through the instructions and info there...its gold.

use 404 High density filler


Do you have the pumps? I know it seems expensive(because it is!) but they make mixing brainless.
Don't mix too much at once or you'll waste it. Mix too little is worse! You don't want to leave glass not fully wetted and have to hurry to mix more....
It takes some experience to start estimating correctly.
temperature effects cure time and there are different hardeners for different temps and required speeds.

its getting cool in NJ...if your stuff is not curing, a 100 watt light bulb overnight will finish it...


Wonton soup containers make great mixing containers....I save every one for future use.....


by the way, I did your exact same project on my old V20 but I can't find any of the pix.

OH!.....its fall so Sam Summer Ale is out....I'd go with Yeungling Black & Tan

 

[TonyD]

Thanks, Dave! Noted!

Skunkboat - yes I still have the pumps I used on my last project - they still seem to function but they are very sticky! I kept them in plastic bags but I agree, it made my last project very easy to mix.
I am going to run out to west marine tomorrow and pick up the 404.

As for the glass material, is the chopped strand mat what I want or do I need to find some glass material? BTW, I am using the 105/205 resin and hardener.. good yes?

Tony

 

[DennisG01]

The material you have is fine. This is not a high intensity job. This is basically just a 'get 'r dun' type job. Lay a piece of the mat on the inside hull, then your block, then use the 1708 over top of everything (overkill, but since you have it...). If you shape/fillet well, the 1708 will lay nicely.

105/205 - expensive, but perfectly fine.

 

[TonyD]

The material you have is fine. This is not a high intensity job. This is basically just a 'get 'r dun' type job. Lay a piece of the mat on the inside hull, then your block, then use the 1708 over top of everything (overkill, but since you have it...). If you shape/fillet well, the 1708 will lay nicely.

105/205 - expensive, but perfectly fine.

Perfect! The 105/205 is what I have left over so I might as well use it.

I want to shape/fillet the glass (1708) tightly to the wood block.. shiny side out or in? (assuming in)

 

[DennisG01]

Shiny (cloth) side out or in? Doesn't really matter - gonna work just as good either way. BUT... I'd probably put the mat side down (against the wood/hull/other mat). Note that 1708 can lay better when it's on a 45* - so play around with a slightly larger piece and hold it at different orientations, before you cut it to final size.

Shape the wood. Fillet the edges with thickened epoxy.

Go the West Systems website as Skunk mentioned and you read more about filleting... they have pictures, too

 

[TonyD]

Shiny (cloth) side out or in? Doesn't really matter - gonna work just as good either way. BUT... I'd probably put the mat side down (against the wood/hull/other mat). Note that 1708 can lay better when it's on a 45* - so play around with a slightly larger piece and hold it at different orientations, before you cut it to final size.

Shape the wood. Fillet the edges with thickened epoxy.

Go the West Systems website as Skunk mentioned and you read more about filleting... they have pictures, too

Yeah, I actually caught a video too, so that makes sense a little better -


and first things first - going to fill that top hole before anything.. just whip up my epoxy and pour it in ........? Going for it!

 

[TonyD]

Looking at the West Systems website - should I use the 405 filler as opposed to the 404?