1989 Gulfstream Mercruiser 5.7

[Altamira]

Update!
No deal on this Grady, the mercruiser did not fare well on the compression test. 2 cylinders were very weak so I passed on the boat. The search continues.

 

['84Offshore]

Just curious......what were the compression numbers?
Adjoining cylinders?

 

[JeffN]

That sucks keep looking, something will turn up. Can you negotiate the price down enough to accommodate a repower? Changing the engine should not be a big deal for you guys.

 

['84Offshore]

Can you negotiate the price down enough to accommodate a repower? Changing the engine should not be a big deal for you guys.

I agree.......put in 383 stroker!!

 

[JeffN]

That's the ticket!

 

[Altamira]

If I remember correctly the pressures were: #1cylinder - 125, #4cylinder - 155, all other cylinders were 180 or 185. Didn't try to negotiate down, I'll keep looking and if I don't find anything then maybe if its still available.

 

[Altamira]

Found a 1987 Gulfstream with a 454 mercruiser. Wondering if I want to go that old, but it is only 2yrs onler than the one I just looked at, thoughts?

 

[JeffN]

Don't know much about the 454. Back in the late 90's when they stopped production of the Merc. 470 I was looking around for info on a future repower. One of my calls was to Grady and I spoke with someone there very familiar with the Sailfish models. I had asked about a 350 single in the Sailfish because I knew they offered that power in that model and he said it was kind of doggy but he suggested the 454 and said it was a really nice package. Interesting because down the road that is very similar to what I ended up with on the repower. There were many 454s around in inboard applications don't know about parts etc. presently. What does your brother think? As I noted before I have the 496 in my Kingfish and really like the combination, on a lighter boat the 454 should really make the Gulfstream go. When can you look at it? As you say it is about the same vintage as what you looked at before.

I would check with Grady and see if the Gulfstream was offered with the 454 the '87 Grady catalog does not say.

 

[DennisG01]

I can't comment on the 232/454 package as I don't have any experience with that, but in regards to the 454... wonderful engine. What I can say, from my experience with more boats than I can shake a stick at, is that I can pretty safely say that the 454 will move that hull along VERY well. It's pretty much bullet proof, great low end torque and parts are still readily available. Sometimes you can cross-ref parts and get them on the automotive side, but you REALLY need to make sure you do your homework. Some parts SHOULD NEVER be bought from the automotive side - especially electrical items such as starters, alternators, etc which could possibly make a spark (in auto application). In marine form they are "spark arrested".

The only thing I would caution against is when it's hooked up with an Alpha drive. The older Alphas were not built well enough to withstand the torque. Now, there's still plenty of these packages out there still running, but it is something to be aware of. Newer lower units will be fine as long as you don't beat on it. Upgrading to a Bravo drive would totally eliminate this potential problem, but that can get costly.

 

[Altamira]

Thanks Jeff and Dennis, this motor was factory installed by Grady so it is a s old as the boat. It does have an Alpha 1st generation on it and I have heard of the torque problems with this drive matched to the 454. Jeff, my brother is fine with the 454, it may even be more economical than the 5.7 350 motor because it will not work as hard to move the boat. I'm not really concerned about the motor because to drop a rebuilt in is within the budget, just concerned about the 1987 hull, I suppose it all depends on it's condition. I am trying to go see it this weekend.

 

[DennisG01]

You're right, it does all come down to condition. But it's not like you're looking at a... excuse my french here... Bayliner We've got a couple Grady's in our family that are much older and still doing fine. I'm looking at an '83 right now, for purchase, and I really don't see anything in the actual hull to give me any worries. I would mention to check the floor out real well since the one I'm looking at has a decent-sized soft spot, but that's "relatively" easy to fix. The one I'm looking at is also a stern drive and the soft spot started at the bilge cutout in the floor as it appears the cut edge wasn't sealed very well - so that would probably be a good place for you to start, as well. I would also pay attention to the transom. Are you comfortable with using a nickel or small ball-peen hammer to listen for sound changes to determine condition?

EDIT: Let me add... in regards to where I said " I really don't see anything in the actual hull to give me any worries"... I'm referring more to the fact that I don't see anything "construction wise" to make me steer clear. They're very well built and use good construction methods.

 

[Altamira]

I have never done the hammer thing, a few tips would be appreciated. Is the owner going to look at me sideways if I take a hammer to his transom? I'm guessing you tap very lightly.

 

[DennisG01]

Yeah, unless you can assure him that you've done this before and are very confident in the way you present yourself, it would probably be best to just use a nickel. You can do as much or as little of the boat as you feel necessary, but I would absolutely check around the transom assembly and thru-hulls (especially underwater).

It's hard to completely relay this information via a forum, but the idea is to do a consistent tapping motion and listen to the sound. There will be "normal" sounds changes (varying thickness of resin/glass, supportive structures, all glass or plywood/balsa coring, etc) but what you're after (or actually, I should say what you don't want to hear) is the softer, hollow sounds of a wet core or the lighter/thinner sounds of delamination. However, you may find some small pockets of delamination, but this is most likely air voids and is not of great concern unless you find a lot. Given the age of the boat, though, most of these would likely have popped open by now. Blisters are another possibility, but it's not abnormal to see a few. The older resins used in gelcoats were more prone to this than the newer stuff. Chances are the boat is bottom painted and if it was done properly, that greatly lessens the chance of blisters.

 

[JeffN]

Use a small plastic headed hammer tap lightly. I checked mine before I sent it off for repower, the sounds were very different and easy to discern.

Good news about the 454. I had always heard good things, I love my 496. If that boat has the underwater deck drains check around them well. Mine had never been sealed at the factory as a matter of fact check all hull and deck penetrations as none of them were sealed at the factory. Just raw core or glass. On my 25' the big problem was the cockpit drains below the waterline on the transom. Don't know if you have that "feature" or not. The cut outs for the drives were fine.

Back in the day the guys around here had trouble with the Alphas when they used stainless props - the thinking was that they were too heavy for the alpha. I always ran aluminum and never had an issue, then again I was not running a 454.

 

[Altamira]

Funny story, I called the guy and asked him if I come up there was he willing to put the boat in the water. Normal question I thought - if you're gonna buy a boat you want to see if it floats right. He was a bit hesitant, like he didn't have the time to be bothered with putting it in or any of my questions. I then asked him what he knew about the previous owners maintenance and if there were any records (assuming there weren't). Well he got a little pissed and said whoever gets here first to look at the boat will hook it up and drive it away. So he doesn't want to put it in the water and doesn't want to answer any questions. I think I'm gonna pass on this one as well. The search continues, my luck is bound to change.

 

[JeffN]

Yeah sure a 27 year old boat - just go down look at it and write the check. The guy on crack or what?

 

['84Offshore]

Here is another great forum for engine/drive questions.......http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser-i-o-inboard-engines-outdrives-21/

 

[DennisG01]

Now maybe, just maybe... and possibly I'm giving the owner too much credit... but maybe he's been getting a lot of "tire kickers" that just want a boat ride and don't have any real intention of buying.

That being said, saying what he did certainly won't entice anyone to come and look at it!

I will say/offer that a test ride should really be the last thing that is done in a negotiation. A price should be agreed upon, the potential buyer should have his/her survey (whether paid for or done yourself) done and THEN the test ride comes. This gives the owner some assurance that the prospective buyer is serious and the prospective buyer can say "If anything afoul comes up during the test ride, I either walk or we re-negotiate".

But again, with what he said - that boat will be sitting for some time, unless of course, it's just at a fantastic price.

 

[Altamira]

Good points Dennis, my approach has been kinda reverse of how you layed it out, maybe I should re-think. What I have done so far is I locate a boat that I am interested in, I will contact the owner and fire off a series of questions. Based on the feedback and research I do, I will schedule a visit too see the boat and hopefully a sea trial. If I am satisfied with the ride, I will make the offer subject to an engine/boat survey done by myself and my brother who is a marine mechanic, he lives 4 hours away so I can't have him show up everytime I do a test ride.. Since May I have made offers on two boats, both times the engines didn't pan out. I could be suffering from analysis paralysis, but I only have a chunk of money to spend one time and whatever I get will be my boat for the next 10 years. Keep your input coming, it all helps as I continue to search.

 

[DennisG01]

I was probably being a little too quick with my answer. What you're doing is fine, too. The only thing that I could suggest is to talk money before you go out. That will give the guy some confidence that you're a serious buyer. It shouldn't be an issue with the guy - at this point you would of already asked your questions and he would of told you what is working/isn't working and/or any issues. So, if he's being upfront with you then he shouldn't have anything to hide. If you were at a dealership looking at the boat, I would suggest even offering a deposit (after the ride) contingent on the survey. I suppose you could still do this with an individual - writing a contract and using a personal check, but I'm not sure how long you have to cancel a check. Check with your bank on the time frame for canceling a check.

But... let's say the survey turns something up that is a deal breaker (or causes the sale price to need to be adjusted). Most people would adjust the sale price to make the sale rather than hope someone else will come along and buy the boat - at that point they're taking a gamble on what that (possible) next deal will be.