265 Capsized of Jersey Coast

[Mustang65fbk]

definitely a 265. Don't recognize the boat or the guys onboard.

Its not a trailer boat..he didn't forget the plug.

How do you know that it's not a trailer boat?

 

[SkunkBoat]

How do you know that it's not a trailer boat?

It’s got bottom paint
It’s 9’7” wide
It’s in NJ

 

[SkunkBoat]

A reminder that it is a good idea to have a high water alarm in the bilge, and at least a light, if not also an audible, to let you know every time your bilge pump cycles. If you have other things running, like the live well, the stereo, etc., you might not notice that your bilge is pumping every few minutes.
That's on my short list, I have been putting off a couple of things that require removing the live well.

Me too

 

[Saltyone]

Even though we don't know what caused this, it's making me rethink doing my drain hoses now versus this next off season. I inspected them, and they "appear" to be in good shape, but better safe than sorry.

Was also wondering if its a good idea to reseal the thru hulls on the bottom for the live well and washdown, or do those generally stayed well sealed once they're installed?

 

[Saltyone]

Also considering the high water alarm, is there one that is recommended?

 

[SeaVee]

1. Glad everyone is ok
2. Love to know the cause-always learning
3. If anyone sees this at auction-let me know- 265 power buy, I need some things!

 

[drbatts]

My guess would be they lost a through hull or a hose ruptured. These 265's are now 20 years old. On my 265 the washdown hose ruptured and flooded the bilge it was on the outside of the stringer and the drain hole to the main bilge was clogged with debris. I noticed the boat was listing hard on the way in. At first i though it was a stuck tab, until I realized we were taking on water. Fortunately we were only about 20 min out and i was able to close the through hull. In hind sight I do recall the pump cycling a lot more then normal but didn't think much of it at the time. The boat was only 10 years old at the time. On my current boat the through hull valve on the A/C froze in the open position, realized it when I went to winterize the boat 2 years ago. I thought the valve was closed, opened the seacock and water started flowing into the bilge. This is a through the hull valve that gets opened and closed many times throughout the season too. The pictures I have seen on 265 and other vintage Grady hoses in these posts about replacements are down right scary and probably an accident waiting to happen.

 

[SkunkBoat]

My guess would be they lost a through hull or a hose ruptured. These 265's are now 30 years old. On my 265 the washdown hose ruptured and flooded the bilge it was on the outside of the stringer and the drain hole to the main bilge was clogged with debris. I noticed the boat was listing hard on the way in. At first i though it was a stuck tab, until I realized we were taking on water. Fortunately we were only about 20 min out and i was able to close the through hull. In hind sight I do recall the pump cycling a lot more then normal but didn't think much of it at the time. The boat was only 10 years old at the time. On my current boat the through hull valve on the A/C froze in the open position, realized it when I went to winterize the boat 2 years ago. I thought the valve was closed, opened the seacock and water started flowing into the bilge. This is a through the hull valve that gets opened and closed many times throughout the season too. The pictures I have seen on 265 and other vintage Grady hoses in these posts about replacements are down right scary and probably an accident waiting to happen.

and 265 scuppers sit low. When tanks are full of 250 gallons the scuppers are under. There is a lot of height to the deck so it doesn't flood the deck. But if the hose fails you are taking on water.

I know a lot of people here panic over scuppers under the water line. But it really isn't any worse than any thruhull with the valve open. You rely on the HOSE

these are 20 year old original hoses

new hoses

 

[Mustang65fbk]

It’s got bottom paint
It’s 9’7” wide
It’s in NJ

Bottom paint doesn't mean that it's not a trailered boat as all of my boats have had bottom paint on them and were trailered all over the place, especially after first buying them and then driving 3,009 miles back to Seattle. You can also get a special permit to tow something up to 18' wide in New Jersey, so you could trailer a boat that is 9'7" wide with a special permit if you wanted to.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Bottom paint doesn't mean that it's not a trailered boat as all of my boats have had bottom paint on them and were trailered all over the place, especially after first buying them and then driving 3,009 miles back to Seattle. You can also get a special permit to tow something up to 18' wide in New Jersey, so you could trailer a boat that is 9'7" wide with a special permit if you wanted to.

OK I'll keep it going...
I'm not tallking about 8'6" boats.

Nobody trailers a big boat for day trips in NJ except the race guys.
By that I mean they don't trailer a 10,000 lb 10 ft wide boat to a ramp from home and go day fishing and then ramp and go home and park it in the driveway. And do it again tomorrow... and next week... We use marinas or houses with docks or lifts. We drive to our big boat or we go in the backyard and get in it. I don't even think there is any rack storage/launch for big boats anywhere in Monmouth or Ocean county. Its just not a thing. Most of our ramps suck and have limited parking. The roads suck. The traffic sucks.
Yes, people have trailers and use them twice a season and don't bother getting a permit. Boat haulers and marinas do the same...

Is it possible he had a 265 with bottom paint and launched it that morning without a 1/2" plug? ...And got from one of a handful of ramps to out of Shark River Inlet or Manasquan Inlet and up to Long Branch and sunk...

yeah anything is possible...

 

[magicalbill]

I'll take the Baton now and run:

Let's say Mustang is right and it was a trailered boat and the Captain forgot the plug. He would've had to launch on a river or SOMEWHERE where he had to idle for a period to get to open water to plane off. Plus, and this is what I would consider "accurate speculation," the boat would've been tied up dockside at the ramp while whoever drove the tow vehicle parked it and walked down and boarded. All that time, water would've been coming in the bilge.

We all know a boat sans a plug will take on water at even a fast idle, as the plug is below the waterline. Therefore he would've had at the very least a noticeable amount in the bilge by the time he got past the pierheads and planed off. At that point he would've noticed the stern-heavy feel of the 265 and investigated.
No offshore guy in his right mind would've noticed the accumulated water and proceeded to the fishing grounds.

Therefore, I say it wasn't a trailered boat, but one with suspect thru-hulls, or the like.

 

[Hookup1]

Long thread on BoatUS. 180+ posts.

Boat drifted for several days before being recovered. Apparently someone attempted a salvage. How it took on water was not known.

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[MashpeeMan]

In my previous boat (not a Grady) I had two issues where I took on water. One, the first time I launched the boat, when I turned on the live well filler and within seconds the bilge pump turned on because the live well wasn't connected properly and the fill-hose was draining directly into the bilge. Of course I noticed the pump gushing out water and quickly shut down the issue. The second time was when I was out fishing and again the bilge pump kicked on (to my surprise). I quickly was able to ascertain that one of the caps in the well at the transom had not been tightened properly, so while we were fishing (and at idle) water was pouring back into the well (and then the bilge) because of the loose cap. Maybe on a larger boat you don't hear the bilge pump kick on, which was what caused me to immediately investigate the two issues above... but it's hard to imagine a bilge being flooded to the point where nobody on board would have noticed the pump (or in this case I presume pumps) working furiously. Unless they weren't working.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

OK I'll keep it going...
I'm not tallking about 8'6" boats.

Nobody trailers a big boat for day trips in NJ except the race guys.
By that I mean they don't trailer a 10,000 lb 10 ft wide boat to a ramp from home and go day fishing and then ramp and go home and park it in the driveway. And do it again tomorrow... and next week... We use marinas or houses with docks or lifts. We drive to our big boat or we go in the backyard and get in it. I don't even think there is any rack storage/launch for big boats anywhere in Monmouth or Ocean county. Its just not a thing. Most of our ramps suck and have limited parking. The roads suck. The traffic sucks.
Yes, people have trailers and use them twice a season and don't bother getting a permit. Boat haulers and marinas do the same...

Is it possible he had a 265 with bottom paint and launched it that morning without a 1/2" plug? ...And got from one of a handful of ramps to out of Shark River Inlet or Manasquan Inlet and up to Long Branch and sunk...

yeah anything is possible...

To me, it seems like as you mentioned it could've been the one of two times where they use their trailer and put the boat in or take it out for the season, especially since it occurred what, in early June? Not everyone has dry/wet storage year round and accidents happen all the time where someone forgets to install the drain plug, especially the first time going out for the year. I know of several people that have forgotten to install the drain plug in the boat, though I personally never have as I always double and triple check everything before putting the boat in the water and out on the buoy for the summer. But if people were being honest, I'm sure that probably 50% of the forum members here would admit that at some point in their decades of boating, that they've forgotten to install the drain plug before and either noticed it on the ramp or after they'd launched the boat. Again imo, this makes more sense to me where they forgot to install the drain plug as opposed to a boat that's left in the water year round, or in dry storage, that then just suddenly has an issue with a thru hull. Just my opinion of course, of which everyone on here is entitled to. It's all going to be rumor and speculation until someone comes out and says what the actual cause of the issue was.

 

[Hookup1]

It's all going to be rumor and speculation until someone comes out and says what the actual cause of the issue was.

Have you read the 181 comments on TowBoatUS Barnegate? They didn't seem to know why it sank. If it bothers you that much call them.

If it were a drain plug - something they probably check first - they would have commented on stupid boater mistake. Plenty of other possible reasons this boat went down.

The real lesson here is you need early warning that your hull is filling up with water before it reaches the tipping point. You may not really know you are sinking. One wave over a GW with a open well can certainly push you over the edge.

 

[luckydude]

I've seen where guys will get wooden ones and put those in when they're using the boat so that they can't get water to come back inside of the boat. The issue with that is though if you take a ton of water over the bow or sides of the boat and then the water can't be drained out. I think the better options would be new rubber scupper flappers, the ping pong style, or do what luckydude did on his boat where you've got a check valve or something similar to where the water can only go out of the boat, not come back in.

I put in flap valves. Bronze, they use gravity to go closed. They work well if I keep them clean.

I'm not a fan of plugging up the drains because those drains are a safety thing, if the boat stuffs or a wave comes over, the water needs to go out. If you are in snotty conditions, the cockpit is full of water, you don't want to go back there to pull plugs. You want to get underway and let that water drain out. At least that's my opinion, worth what you paid for it

 

[luckydude]

The other item is that whenever anyone is on the 228 they have to wear a life vest.

I rarely ever see others doing the same.

Years ago a coastguard boat came next to me asking I had a problem - I just said I always wear one.

Better safe that sorry.


Sturg.

You get on my 228, you have a life vest on before we leave the dock. Arguing with me about it is how you never get an invite to come again. Arguing with me about it and then sneaking into the cuddy cabin to pull a shot of booze every so often is how you *really* never get an invite back (yep, happened to me, go figure. And it's not like I don't enjoy my cocktails but that's for after the boat is home, boat & trailer washed, and you are cleaning fish. Never on the water. No exceptions.)

I have been running my own boats for almost 7 years. I know there that it isn't that likely that you will fall over. I know a beer or two is probably fine. But it's my boat, they are my guests, there will be life vests worn (nice ones, provided by me, the light self inflating ones so there is no excuse like it's too bulky), and there will be no drinking on the ocean. The Pacific is not like Florida, it can beat the shit out of you and you need to be sharp. A few beers and you aren't sharp, you aren't watching for logs, you aren't listening for some pump that shouldn't be running, etc, etc. Plenty of time to drink at the end of the day.

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now, I just hate it when people take needless risks on the ocean, the ocean is pretty unforgiving.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I put in flap valves. Bronze, they use gravity to go closed. They work well if I keep them clean.

I'm not a fan of plugging up the drains because those drains are a safety thing, if the boat stuffs or a wave comes over, the water needs to go out. If you are in snotty conditions, the cockpit is full of water, you don't want to go back there to pull plugs. You want to get underway and let that water drain out. At least that's my opinion, worth what you paid for it

I definitely wouldn't advise of those wooden plugs specifically for that reason. I think at the very minimum would be to get new rubber scupper flappers installed on the boat every year and/or you could also do something like you did where you have the flap valves, a check valve or something similar.

 

[HMBJack]

There is alot we know and alot we don't know.

Hookup said it right:

"The real lesson here is you need early warning that your hull is filling up with water before it reaches the tipping point."

So, one thing is for certain, we should all have High Water Alarms in our bilges. That's my advice.

 

[Saltyone]

The Pacific is not like Florida, it can beat the shit out of you and you need to be sharp.

That right there is the reason I sold my aluminum North River last year and bought the 265. After 7 years of running for albacore in the North River, last year we got the crap beat out of us on a run out. Wasn't that it was unsafe conditions, just sloppy. I said enough is enough.