Broken anti-siphon valve on a Tournament 192, how do I get the pickup tube out?

Tech dog, Don't get too concerned if you wind up spinning the fitting in the plastic. There are innumerable repair/replacement parts available. The field sprayer guys are constantly changing/adding input/output fittings in poly tanks. Not rocket science, just science in a different business. To make you feel braver before you wrench on your tank again, call an outfit that builds commercial sprayer tanks or an outfit that sprays fields or lawns and talk to them about your tank needs as far as diameter and the fact that it's gas. Don't worry about replacing the anti-siphon valve. Lawyers put those in your boat. Just a barb fitting is all you need. I think a 1/4 turn shut-off valve between the barb and the tank is a good idea.
 
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Halfhitch said:
Tech dog, Don't get too concerned if you wind up spinning the fitting in the plastic. There are innumerable repair/replacement parts available. The field sprayer guys are constantly changing/adding input/output fittings in poly tanks. Not rocket science, just science in a different business. To make you feel braver before you wrench on your tank again, call an outfit that builds commercial sprayer tanks or an outfit that sprays fields or lawns and talk to them about your tank needs as far as diameter and the fact that it's gas. Don't worry about replacing the anti-siphon valve. Lawyers put those in your boat. Just a barb fitting is all you need. I think a 1/4 turn shut-off valve between the barb and the tank is a good idea.
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From the reading I've done it looks like the fix, if I destroy the current threaded insert, is plastic heat-welding a new fitting into the poly. Hopefully it won't come to that, as I'd have to hire a shop that knows what they're doing. This is a bad time of year to need boat mechanics, as they're all very busy.

I figure I may as well put in a new anti-siphon if/when I get the broken nipple out, but I"ll put in brass and not friggin aluminum. In my experience nothing gets corrosion-welded like aluminum does.
 
tech_dog said:
From the reading I've done it looks like the fix, if I destroy the current threaded insert, is plastic heat-welding a new fitting into the poly. Hopefully it won't come to that, as I'd have to hire a shop that knows what they're doing. This is a bad time of year to need boat mechanics, as they're all very busy.

I figure I may as well put in a new anti-siphon if/when I get the broken nipple out, but I"ll put in brass and not friggin aluminum. In my experience nothing gets corrosion-welded like aluminum does.
Click to expand...
No need to go to those extremes of welding. Totally unnecessary. Outfits like this can fix you up with what you need. This just the first one I saw on a quick search. You will just have to get a repair fitting that does not require a hand-hole access. There are some bolt-on handhole covers to make things easier. There are also some ingenious repair fittings that let you bolt up a two piece inner plate that drops thru the existing hole and using some supplied wire nuts you can bolt it right up. I will see if I can find a picture of the one I used.

Tank Flanges for IBCs & Totes | JME Ellsworth

Shop JME's selection of tank flanges for IBCs & totes.
www.jmesales.com www.jmesales.com
 
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A good way to do your repair should you not be able to remove the aluminum elbow is to install an inspection plate in your tank right where the bad fitting is. Before installing the plate for final is to install the proper size bulkhead fitting in the inspection plate before bolting it down for final. Here is a video of an installation of an inspection plate.

 
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Did you check, yet, if that fittign is a bulkhead fitting? Or have you just not been to the boat, yet?

I meant to mention this earlier... you could always INSTALL a bulkhead fitting for this very easily since you already have an access plate hole... the sender.

My opinion differs on the AS valve... if a section of the fuel line is lower than the tank, a leak in that section may cause your entire tank to empy out into your bilge. And then get pumped overboard... which also may be a tens of thousands of dollars of a fine in addition to the safety risk. Even if no section of hose is currently below the tank, if a section should rupture/split, it may fall below. Granted, that's a rarity - but this is not the area to take a chance in.
 
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DennisG01 said:
Did you check, yet, if that fittign is a bulkhead fitting? Or have you just not been to the boat, yet?

I meant to mention this earlier... you could always INSTALL a bulkhead fitting for this very easily since you already have an access plate hole... the sender.

My opinion differs on the AS valve... if a section of the fuel line is lower than the tank, a leak in that section may cause your entire tank to empy out into your bilge. And then get pumped overboard... which also may be a tens of thousands of dollars of a fine in addition to the safety risk. Even if no section of hose is currently below the tank, if a section should rupture/split, it may fall below. Granted, that's a rarity - but this is not the area to take a chance in.
Click to expand...

I just got back from hitting everything with another round of PB blaster. the fitting is either in the poly or a bulkhead, but I didn't confirm. I think I'll get SOME access from taking off the nearby sender, a decent sized hole, but I don't want to mess with it until I have to. I know I can get the sender out as I replaced it just last year. If it's a bulkhead fitting already, that's probably how Grady White got it on in the first place.

I'm going to start with a week of PB blaster and then a pipe extractor on what's left of the ASV, fingers crossed.. 4th of July weekend is coming and the crowds are already up, so I'd be letting the boat sit for a bit anyway.

I agree with you. All that stuff is there for a reason, and I plan on installing a new BRASS ASV, not aluminum....

Thanks.

Edit*** I ended up sticking with aluminum instead of brass, to avoid galvanic corrosion with the aluminum tank fitting.
 
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On a side note, I looked up brass anti siphon valves and in the description for a Moeller , it said that for motors under 200 hp, aluminum is the norm but for 200hp and up, the ASV has to be brass. I didn't know that.
 
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You might want to consider pulling the floor panel. It will give you way more access to the fittings than trying to work with two hands and tools through a 6" inspection port. As someone else mentioned, I'd either try an EZ out or gently drill it out. It’s just a light weight aluminum, so it probably disintegrated as soon as you went to remove it. Get progressively bigger with your drill bit sizes as you go and the remaining pieces will eventually come out. Chase the threads with a tap and just install a brass barb in it's place.
 
Pulling the floor panel to get better access is a good idea.
However, i would not suggest to drill (or whatever else what can create heat and/or sparks) anything on any fuel tank except he has been emptied, washed several times and then filled totally with water to avoid a explosion.
Chris
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone.

After a 10 days of PB blaster, 7 tools, 3 trips to the boat, and 6 hours of trying, I could not get the broken anti-siphon nipple out of the pickup tube fitting. It's fused into a single piece of metal. I was hoping to avoid dealing with the pickup tube to tank connection, as it was also a solid mass of fused aluminum, because I didn't want to damage my tank.

I just spent 3 hours alternating between a pair of wrenches, one holding the tank fitting, the other torquing the pickup tube fitting, and rapping on the fitting with a metal drift, hoping to break the corrosion that fused everything together.

It finally started to move, and I wasn't sure if it was another broken fitting at first, but it came out slow and clean. I've got a simple replacement job left, but my problem appears to be solved.

This was one of the worst jobs I've ever had to do, and such a friggin relief. Opening up the floor in my 192 would mean cutting fiberglass, so I was working with very minimal clearance.

1752187226759.png

The win came from lots of PB blaster and time, rapping on the block to break up corrosion, holding the hex in place to avoid spinning, and torquing the block with a spanner, being very patient and careful not to break the pickup fitting.

1752187310777.png

T.
 
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Hookup1 said:
Hose it down with PB Blaster a few times. Put a large socket or correct sized wrench and possible a pipe extension and try to get it loose. If you spin it you will destroy the fitting and the tank. No pressure...don't screw up!
Click to expand...

This turned out to be very good advice. Thanks.
 
DennisG01 said:
I "think", but am not sure... that the hex is actually a bulkhead fitting. If so, then there is a retaining nut on the inside of the tank to hold the fitting in place. Remove the sender and feel for a nut on the inside.
Click to expand...

This turned out to be helpful. Thanks.

I'm not sure if the fitting is molded in or if it's backed by a bulkhead fitting, but it's clear it's part of the tank. The right move for someone with my style tank, a 1995 Tournament 192 with poly, is to keep that fitting from spinning and to spin the cube as patiently and gently as you can.

I think it would have been a pretty nasty problem and a mess to fix if that pickup tube nipple had broken off in the tank fitting, and it felt close.
 
Sardinia306Canyon said:
So your 192 has the fuel tank glassed in, no big fuel tank cover to remove?
Click to expand...

My 1994 Tournament 192 has one inspection port that gives access to the fill and vent hoses, and another that gives access to the pickup tube and sender.

I've got small indents in the deck fiberglass indicating where a cut would be made for tank access, but access would be via saw, not screwdriver. I definitely didn't want to go there.
 
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seasick said:
On a side note, I looked up brass anti siphon valves and in the description for a Moeller , it said that for motors under 200 hp, aluminum is the norm but for 200hp and up, the ASV has to be brass. I didn't know that.
Click to expand...

I ended up finding a brass ASV with the 30 rating for <200hp, but didn't want to introduce dissimilar metals. My tank fitting is aluminum, so that forces me into aluminum for the pickup tube and ASV.

Since I was having issues with fuel starvation at high speeds, I wanted to go to an aluminum with the less restrictive 15 rating, typically for >200hp, but I couldn't find one.

I ended up buying the Moeller aluminum 30 rated, which is probably what GW originally used.

I'm going to install a new pickup tube and fitting, temporarily install a pass through valve, no ASV, drain a few gallons from the bottom of the tank, drain and replace the fuel filter, drain a bit more, install the new ASV, and call it a win.

This mess was keeping me up at night. I'm still feeling celebratory now that it's fixed.

T.
 
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tech_dog said:
My 1994 Tournament 192 has one inspection port that gives access to the fill and vent hoses, and another that gives access to the pickup tube and sender.

I've got small indents in the deck fiberglass indicating where a cut would be made for tank access, but access would be via saw, not screwdriver. I definitely didn't want to go there.
Click to expand...
Well, for sure you should not cut the floor if not needed.
I expected that there is a removable fuel tank cover but i was wrong.
Good work and i hope for a happy ending and lots of joy when you boat.
Chris
 
tech_dog said:
Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone.

After a 10 days of PB blaster, 7 tools, 3 trips to the boat, and 6 hours of trying, I could not get the broken anti-siphon nipple out of the pickup tube fitting. It's fused into a single piece of metal. I was hoping to avoid dealing with the pickup tube to tank connection, as it was also a solid mass of fused aluminum, because I didn't want to damage my tank.

I just spent 3 hours alternating between a pair of wrenches, one holding the tank fitting, the other torquing the pickup tube fitting, and rapping on the fitting with a metal drift, hoping to break the corrosion that fused everything together.

It finally started to move, and I wasn't sure if it was another broken fitting at first, but it came out slow and clean. I've got a simple replacement job left, but my problem appears to be solved.

This was one of the worst jobs I've ever had to do, and such a friggin relief. Opening up the floor in my 192 would mean cutting fiberglass, so I was working with very minimal clearance.

View attachment 37558

The win came from lots of PB blaster and time, rapping on the block to break up corrosion, holding the hex in place to avoid spinning, and torquing the block with a spanner.

View attachment 37559

T.
Click to expand...
As I read your post, I was saying to myself " That could be on my "worst jobs I have tackled on a boat" list. Then you said the same thing!
Congrats on your persistence.
 
Sardinia306Canyon said:
So your 192 has the fuel tank glassed in, no big fuel tank cover to remove?

Glad to gear that you made it, the immense work paid off!
Chris
Click to expand...
GW switched to 1 piece decks without an access panel over the tank (just a 6 inch inspection port) whenever they switched a model from aluminum to plastic fuel tanks... I guess the idea is a plastic tank should last the lifetime of the hull, unlike an aluminum one... idk
 
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