Exhaust inspection

[Penny Lane]

Has anyone paid a Yamaha tech to pull lower units on F225 as part of a pre purchase inspection? Both engines are 2004 with 500 hours on them.

 

[DennisG01]

Wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd do it, at a minimum, to make sure the lower unit comes off and isn't stuck. If you're planning on buying it, replace the impeller at the same time - unless you know that it was just done.

 

[igblack87]

I'd pay the couple hundred $$ to have that done (and did on my current boat) vs. finding out a I have a crap engine...then your up sh*ts creek Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[Automated14]

Has anyone paid a Yamaha tech to pull lower units on F225 as part of a pre purchase inspection? Both engines are 2004 with 500 hours on them.

I've paid to have 3.3 liter 200 and 225 inspected 3x over the last 4 years.

1st was a boat I was in contract on in 2019 with '04 225's (900 hours) . exhausts had been done in 2010 with receipts. They were shot again. transom was also moist so I cancelled that.

2nd was also in 2019, in contract on the next boat, a 2008 with 200's (600 hours). Strike 2! bad again. otherwise the boat was in great condition, so I negotiated the cost to do the exhausts off the purchase price. ended up loving those engines after I got the exhausts done. Didn't love the ride of the boat so I sold it a year later.

3rd was in 2020 on my current '04 330 express with original 225's (1000 hours). exhausts had been done in 2017 with receipts. They looked good and I bought the boat. Ran it for 2 years with zero issues. Sold the engines this past spring and repowered. As far as I know, they are still going strong.

After owning 2 sets of these engines, going through this inspection process 3x and speaking at length with 2 different mechanics who did the inspecitons, here are my take aways:

-These are excellent engines if you can get the exhaust sorted. They purr like sewing machines and I loved them. got rid of one set because the boat they were attached to rode horribly, got rid of the second set because they were severely underpowered for the boat they were attached to.

-Inspection without pulling power head does not guarantee they arent' rotten.

-excessive idle hours were the smoking gun on both sets of engines I had inspected with rotten exhausts. The mechanic said that to me and I believe it.

-when you drop the lower unit and inspect, you won't usually see "holes" what my guy showed me was it looks like the metal gaskets bewteen the sections protrude into the exhaust where you can see them.

 

[Chutch]

I had one done on my pre purchase. They used a scope so no disassembly other the the prop required. also had them hook up a Yamaha diagnostic to get rpm run times report. It also revealed a discrepancy between what the gauges said the hours were on one of the motors vs what the ECM had recoded. One of the motors has been replaced using the old gauges. would have thought what the gauge showed was pulled from the ECM it apparently is not. Used in negotiations. One motor had the exhaust done the other did not. unfortunately struggling to get the exhaust parts for a 2002 F225 there on backorder everywhere.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Not much more to be said. I bought my boat back in early October of 2021 in Maryland from a Grady White dealership. They had the boat in on consignment and actually replaced the motor with a used one they had. They said they dropped the lower unit and inspected for the dry exhaust corrosion issues of which they said there weren’t any issues. Drove the boat back from Maryland to just north of Seattle where I live and had the local GW dealer winterize the boat as well as drop the lower unit again to double check and make sure the dealer I bought it from was being honest. They dropped it and said it looked perfect, so I was definitely pleased with that as well as the selling dealership being honest and forthright. I figured they probably were but having flown in from out of town and a surveyor being 2-3 weeks out, I rolled the dice a bit more than I normally would’ve. I figured I could trust the dealership a little bit more than a private party as they’re both a GW/Yamaha dealer that had/has great reviews, but you never know.

I always recommend anyone buying a boat, or just about any higher dollar purchase for that matter, to pay for a surveyor. It took me just over a year to find my boat, of which I looked at multiple others online, put offers down on a couple and even had a surveyor go out and inspect another one. That particular boat had multiple problems with it from some hidden damage to the surveyor suspecting the motor had the dry exhaust corrosion issue, and I gladly passed on it. I think I spent $600 on the survey and although I was out that money, it was worth it in the long run to not buy a boat that was a can of worms. On top of a survey, I also recommend anyone buying a boat with the early 2000’s Yamaha 4 stroke motors to have the exhausts inspected as well. The work, from what I hear to replace them isn’t too bad, but I’ve heard the kits and replacement parts are getting very difficult to source out anymore. If you were looking at a boat that did have issues with the motor(s) though, you could always work that to your advantage by negotiating the asking price that much more.

 

[seasick]

I had one done on my pre purchase. They used a scope so no disassembly other the the prop required. also had them hook up a Yamaha diagnostic to get rpm run times report. It also revealed a discrepancy between what the gauges said the hours were on one of the motors vs what the ECM had recoded. One of the motors has been replaced using the old gauges. would have thought what the gauge showed was pulled from the ECM it apparently is not. Used in negotiations. One motor had the exhaust done the other did not. unfortunately struggling to get the exhaust parts for a 2002 F225 there on backorder everywhere.

I am surprised about the gauge not agreeing with the ECM hours.

 

[Legend]

I had 2 2004 with 720 hours on them in 20n17 and lost both of them to exhaust corrosion that spread to the powerhead. Had them inspected every other year for the previous 8 years and they were clean. Even when they went in for inspection the last time they were running flawlessly. As someone said - great engines just stay ahead of the exhaust.

 

[seasick]

Unfortunately, an inspection (scoping) of the mid section can tell you if there is a corrosion problem in the stack , but some of the cases involved corrosion of the oil pan. You can not see that without pulling the power head and that is much more labor intensive.

 

[drbatts]

If the midsections were replaced recently and documented, probably wouldn't worry about it that much. If they never been done, I would save the money from the inspection and just replace the midsections. The more serious corrosion is usually up by the powerhead and will not be seen with scoping. Also check the thermostats which is another common area of corrosion on these engines, but is not talked about as much as the midsection issues.

 

[Penny Lane]

Thank you all for your input. Alot of good stuff here from your experiences. If the survey turns out good, I will purchase the boat and schedule the updates to both motors. Sounds like a good investment for piece of mind.

 

[grady33]

This is what corrosion looks like on the powerhead. I was able to have it TIG welded and replaced midsection and oil pump and running great as it always has. Unfortunately you don’t know until you pull the powerhead. Before and after pictures attached.

 

[seasick]

Great pictures. Do you have a picture of the oil pan, looking at the inside?

 

[Penny Lane]

This is what corrosion looks like on the powerhead. I was able to have it TIG welded and replaced midsection and oil pump and running great as it always has. Unfortunately you don’t know until you pull the powerhead. Before and after pictures attached.

Great pictures here! If the sale goes through this will be the first priority to protect my investment. Good job on the repair! Did you do that work yourself? If not, approximately what did it cost you to get it done?
Thanks!

 

[Penny Lane]

I'm just curious to take it one step further, has anyone replaced the 225s with something other than 225s? Like 200s?

 

[Peterb21]

Has anyone paid a Yamaha tech to pull lower units on F225 as part of a pre purchase inspection? Both engines are 2004 with 500 hours on them.

I purchased a 2003 GW 282 with twin F225 and 800 hours. I had Catalano in CT do a compression test, computer download, and leak down test even though I had recent original records from the seller showing that the exhaust was done in the last few years. They installed new thermostats too while they had it apart. Total cost was $1130, and I spent this prior to committing to the final purchase. Engines are the one thing that I wouldn't mess with on a used boat without getting a professional review - no matter how few hours are on it. Good luck!

 

[seasick]

I purchased a 2003 GW 282 with twin F225 and 800 hours. I had Catalano in CT do a compression test, computer download, and leak down test even though I had recent original records from the seller showing that the exhaust was done in the last few years. They installed new thermostats too while they had it apart. Total cost was $1130, and I spent this prior to committing to the final purchase. Engines are the one thing that I wouldn't mess with on a used boat without getting a professional review - no matter how few hours are on it. Good luck!

Worth every penny.
The last exhaust replacement job I saw was quite a few years ago on twin 225s. At that time exhaust kits were $600 per engine. The total job which included oil pumps was somewhere around $5,000 but I think that was before it was discovered that the oil pans were shot.
It's not a cheap job.
With the past 10 years of inflation, I imagine todays cost would be a lot higher.
Does anyone know if the exhaust kits are still being offered for $600?

 

[Automated14]

Worth every penny.
The last exhaust replacement job I saw was quite a few years ago on twin 225s. At that time exhaust kits were $600 per engine. The total job which included oil pumps was somewhere around $5,000 but I think that was before it was discovered that the oil pans were shot.
It's not a cheap job.
With the past 10 years of inflation, I imagine todays cost would be a lot higher.
Does anyone know if the exhaust kits are still being offered for $600?

I had exhausts done on '08 200's in 2019. It was around 12K but we did a lot of other stuff while the power heads were off. that price also included full VST svc, a couple of steering seals, power trim seal, prop shaft seal on one lower unit and other misc stuff. I believe without all the extra work, it would have been around $9800.00. That was just me stroking a check, no DIY. Even in today's money, I'd guess the number is 5k per engine to have someone do it... but that's here on Long Island where labor is 175-200 per hour and the man is really gettin his on parts markup.

If you can dodge the rotted oil pan/block bullet, It's totally worth it.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I had exhausts done on '08 200's in 2019. It was around 12K but we did a lot of other stuff while the power heads were off. that price also included full VST svc, a couple of steering seals, power trim seal, prop shaft seal on one lower unit and other misc stuff. I believe without all the extra work, it would have been around $9800.00. That was just me stroking a check, no DIY. Even in today's money, I'd guess the number is 5k per engine to have someone do it... but that's here on Long Island where labor is 175-200 per hour and the man is really gettin his on parts markup.

If you can dodge the rotted oil pan/block bullet, It's totally worth it.

Dang... that's a pretty big markup indeed as I took my boat to a GW dealer here locally called Jacobsen's Marine in Edmonds and they said it would be "around" $2k - $2,500, depending on what all needed to be done. Obviously more if it was a powerhead, though they did mention a replacement powerhead would likely be another $5k or so on top of that. Of which they mentioned at that point, they'd recommend parting it out and buying new or a used replacement motor if you could find one. This was right after I bought my boat back in October of 2021, and asked out of the sake of curiosity, though they did say they dropped the lower unit on my 2004 F225 and it looked perfect. Knock on wood...

 

[Automated14]

Dang... that's a pretty big markup indeed as I took my boat to a GW dealer here locally called Jacobsen's Marine in Edmonds and they said it would be "around" $2k - $2,500, depending on what all needed to be done. Obviously more if it was a powerhead, though they did mention a replacement powerhead would likely be another $5k or so on top of that. Of which they mentioned at that point, they'd recommend parting it out and buying new or a used replacement motor if you could find one. This was right after I bought my boat back in October of 2021, and asked out of the sake of curiosity, though they did say they dropped the lower unit on my 2004 F225 and it looked perfect. Knock on wood...

Those numbers sound very optimistic. For 2500, I’d have mine done even if they passed just so I could sleep at night. I know 2500 is a good chunk but compared to the dry assbanging we all take with these boats, it’s a drop in the bucket.